KEF Ci200RR-THX In-ceiling/In-Wall Speaker Review

[Ellebob]

It depends on your layout but in general speakers that just angle the tweeter and not the rest of the frequency range have very limited applications.
These Kef speakers I have used and wouldn't use them in the typical layout of placing them 45 degrees in front or back of the listeners like in the Dolby diagram. If you only care about 1 seat it might work OK. Atmos in homes with typical low ceilings 2.5-3 meter (7-10ft) makes it difficult to get all the angles correct to cover the seating area well. The angles just get to be too great for other seats especially if you have two rows. Ideally, you would want something that angles 45 degrees but I would say at least 30 degrees. Even at 45 degrees it is often better to not place them 45 degrees in front of the front seats or behind the backs seat. You have to calculate the angles for your seating area and ceiling height and try to get decent coverage for the seating area. Try to get speakers that work for your situation and hopefully closely match your other speakers.

 

[thebizz]

Thanks Ellebob, The cables are already run, it was a rush due to building work, so the positions are pretty much set. The depth is also restricted due to the build so all the angled ceiling speakers won't fit as they are all far too deep. It's in a living room setup up so needs to be neat and covering 2 seats is fine.
The only options I have are digging the cable out at the wall ceiling join and fitting small speakers on brackets pointing at the listening position or going with the ceiling positions already set. I've tried the onwalls in the last house and I didn't feel it added much of an atmos effect. Trying to get as much advice as I can before making big holes in ceiling plaster and insulation.

 

[juliangst]

What could be the reason that the 10“ woofer KEF Ci250RRM literally needs 7.5x the volume of the 8“ Kef Ci200RR according to KEF?

If I wanted to build an MDF backbox for the Ci250 to put it into a 30cm ceiling absorber it would have to be a 70x70x30cm large box which sounds insane for a ceiling speaker.
Even the 80 liter minimum recommended seems extremely large for a speaker like that.

 

[quattro98]

What could be the reason that the 10“ woofer KEF Ci250RRM literally needs 7.5x the volume of the 8“ Kef Ci200RR according to KEF?

If I wanted to build an MDF backbox for the Ci250 to put it into a 30cm ceiling absorber it would have to be a 70x70x30cm large box which sounds insane for a ceiling speaker.
Even the 80 liter minimum recommended seems extremely large for a speaker like that.

I assume it's the design of the driver. If optimized for infinite baffle, the driver will have a stiff suspension and not require back pressure from a closed box. That makes sense for a CI speaker.

 

[ban25]

I ordered 4 of these to expand my system to 5.1.4. Should have them installed in a week.

 

[Sammy135]

I assume it's the design of the driver. If optimized for infinite baffle, the driver will have a stiff suspension and not require back pressure from a closed box. That makes sense for a CI speaker.

What makes a ceiling CI speaker different than in wall CI.

Their in wall, they don't recommend the same wall joist, so same baffle to be shared between two speakers.

They have pictures showing to avoid 2 in walls in same wall joint.

So how is it that 2 or 4 ceilings get to share that baffle in the attic, lets say, but in walls don't.

Just asking for curiosity and knowledge.

Thanks.

 

[-Matt-]

If flush mounted on the front of a tv cabinet, could one of these make a reasonable centre speaker? (Probably the square one actually).

I.e. With a suitable, sturdy, back box constructed inside the cabinet.

 

[sweetchaos]

@amirm Please attach the speaker data.

 

[mikedn]

Anyone using them as LCR? Due to throw distance needed I’m space constrained to ca 15-18cm (say 7”) deep baffle wall and this seems like a good choice for a small room - supported by two Arendal 1961 1S subs, with Arendal 1961 heights (4 Atmos on-ceiling) and two Arendal 1961 surrounds (dipole on-wall).

If you’re using them as LCR, are you happy? Have you built a backbox, and if so, how many litres?

Or should I go to a compression driver instead, like JBL Studio 6 Architectural 6IW?

 

[Descartes]

I ordered 4 of these to expand my system to 5.1.4. Should have them installed in a week.

Pictures please looking at them as well!

 

[dftkell]

Anyone using them as LCR? Due to throw distance needed I’m space constrained to ca 15-18cm (say 7”) deep baffle wall and this seems like a good choice for a small room - supported by two Arendal 1961 1S subs, with Arendal 1961 heights (4 Atmos on-ceiling) and two Arendal 1961 surrounds (dipole on-wall).

If you’re using them as LCR, are you happy? Have you built a backbox, and if so, how many litres?

Or should I go to a compression driver instead, like JBL Studio 6 Architectural 6IW?

I’m a big fan of KEF but I wouldn’t use these for LCR. The Monolith Monoprice THX speakers were measured by Amir (look at the revised set of graphs done the second time) and look to be great value for the money—1/4 the price of the KEF’s. And you will have LCR’s that can cross over at 80hz without a problem and play louder without distortion. Just not sure what the depth is though.

 

[exm]

I’m a big fan of KEF but I wouldn’t use these for LCR. The Monolith Monoprice THX speakers were measured by Amir (look at the revised set of graphs done the second time) and look to be great value for the money—1/4 the price of the KEF’s. And you will have LCR’s that can cross over at 80hz without a problem and play louder without distortion. Just not sure what the depth is though.

You can't go all the time by measurements alone: if you want to select a speaker based on measurements, more power to you. But that would be saying that Subaru Impreza can do 0-60mph in 3 seconds, just like a Lamborghini Aventador (making this up for comparison sake), so they are the same.

 

[dftkell]

You can't go all the time by measurements alone: if you want to select a speaker based on measurements, more power to you. But that would be saying that Subaru Impreza can do 0-60mph in 3 seconds, just like a Lamborghini Aventador (making this up for comparison sake), so they are the same.

Of course you can’t go by measurements alone. But when buying in wall speakers, I’m not sure what other choice you have considering there is nowhere to hear them yourself and nowhere to compare them to others. Measurements always have their place in making a decision. Toole's research proved that people will prefer a speaker with good directivity more than one without for instance. I was just pointing out that the measurements can indicate a well engineered speaker for the money. And nowhere in my post did I say that they would sound better. What I said was the "look to be great value for the money." I'll stand by that. And then I said that you will be able to cross them over lower and play louder without distortion. Those are both true and for home theater could be an important factor. I never said to select a speaker based on measurements alone as you implied.

Also, I’m not referring to just on axis FR. I’m referring to the complete set of measurements which includes off axis, polar response, distortion, etc. So your Impreza/Aventador comparison makes no sense. Yes, they can both do 0-60mph in 3 seconds…but how about torque, top speed, track times, handling, braking, etc, etc.

What is interesting about the Impreza/Aventador comparison though, is that the Aventador costs $500,000 and the Impreza Sport costs about $30,000. So for a savings of $470,000 maybe you can get a very, very, very small taste of what it's like to own the Lambo when you stomp on the pedal and hit 60mph in 3 secs. Kind of like how you might just get a very, very, very small taste of what the Revel Salon2's ($22,000) sound like by listening to the Revel F36's ($2,200).

 

[Dovydas]

You can't go all the time by measurements alone: if you want to select a speaker based on measurements, more power to you. But that would be saying that Subaru Impreza can do 0-60mph in 3 seconds, just like a Lamborghini Aventador (making this up for comparison sake), so they are the same.

If the most important measure is the acceleration, so you can definitely compare Subaru and Lambo as you did not mention any other indicators. For example you are buying car for drag racing, why do you need to pay 10 times more? But speakers, the same as cars, are measured by much more indicators. Continuing this comparison, if you don't care how it looks and how luxurious it is, but only care about a performance, then again, you can buy something much cheaper than Lambo what can still do the same acceleration, top speed and lap time. For example M3 or whatever. It's a perfect analog I think

 

[Descartes]

I’m a big fan of KEF but I wouldn’t use these for LCR. The Monolith Monoprice THX speakers were measured by Amir (look at the revised set of graphs done the second time) and look to be great value for the money—1/4 the price of the KEF’s. And you will have LCR’s that can cross over at 80hz without a problem and play louder without distortion. Just not sure what the depth is though.

Didn’t see that review, link please

 

[dftkell]

Didn’t see that review, link please

In-wall Speaker Measurements (Monoprice THX-365IW)

A couple of weeks ago I post the measurements of the Monoprice THX-365IW. For that, I built a leaky back wall in an attempt to approximate the actual application. Alas, that provided such messy measurements that I thought I start over using a new methodology/system. Klippel NFS has a module...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[mikedn]

great to read the discussion. I’m afraid that Monoprice is not being sold here in Norway. That’s why I’m leaning towards the JBL Studio 6 IW series for my baffle wall in a small home cinema room

 

[ban25]

Anyone using them as LCR? Due to throw distance needed I’m space constrained to ca 15-18cm (say 7”) deep baffle wall and this seems like a good choice for a small room - supported by two Arendal 1961 1S subs, with Arendal 1961 heights (4 Atmos on-ceiling) and two Arendal 1961 surrounds (dipole on-wall).

If you’re using them as LCR, are you happy? Have you built a backbox, and if so, how many litres?

Or should I go to a compression driver instead, like JBL Studio 6 Architectural 6IW?

I have 4 of these in my ceiling as Atmos speakers. They are quite capable and produce significant bass -- I cross them over at 60 Hz. Could you use them as LCR? Certainly, as long as they are supported by a good subwoofer or two!

 

[ban25]

Pictures please looking at them as well!

They don't particularly stand out behind the grills (fortunately).

 

[radix]

Even the 80 liter minimum recommended seems extremely large for a speaker like that.

In the US, 80L or 2.8 cuft is about the size of a wall section between studs: 14" x 3.5" x 96" = 2.7 cuft. With 6" studs (5.5" actual), that's 4.3 cuft. With 10' ceilings, that's 5.3 cuft. So, that's it. 6" studs and 10' ceilings with standard stud spacing. Where I live, not much is built with 6" studs. Sorry for all the stupid imperial units, everyone with sane measurements.