Jitter with topping e30

[JohnYang1997]

Misinformation.?...man how many excuses do you have..t

What excuses? D30pro which uses exactly the same chip has been shown to work with multiple devices just on this forum alone. Idk how exactly all your devices don't work with E30. I also don't know how if this issue is that big it would take this long for a person like you to appear to make a thread about it.

 

[Benedium]

Hahaha ASR customers are the toughest.
Stay strong Mr John Yang

 

[JohnYang1997]

It would be unfortunate for other manufacturers if they face this kind of problems. But luckily it just so happens that Amir has used D30pro for these two reviews.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/bluesound-node-review-streamer.25578/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...c3-review-bluetooth-receiver-bt-codecs.23740/

 

[billdylan]

What excuses? D30pro which uses exactly the same chip has been shown to work with multiple devices just on this forum alone. Idk how exactly all your devices don't work with E30. I also don't know how if this issue is that big it would take this long for a person like you to appear to make a thread about it.

Ok john ...Unfortunately I don't have one of your D30 pro DACS ..I just have one of your E30 s that doesn't work....if only i had a D30 Pro...we probably wouldn't be having this conversation....Maybe this could explain why the D30 works...and the E30 doesn't...So from your statement the D30 must just be exactly the same electronically as the New E30 in all other respects so maybe should be called the same name.?..

Here's the rest of the reply I got from your service centre.. ..could be other reasons combining for the problem to cause this outcome with the CS chip in the 'New' E30

If you could please read the whole response before you post that i am Incorrect and contact the company for a new 'Reason' why this doesn't happen that would be appreciated ..Thanj You..


And i Quote This is from YOUR companies Service department.

"The CS8416 have chosen a way: to reduce the fault tolerance to ensure a better output signal. AKM’s AK4118 chose another path: as compatible as possible with the input signal even if it is irregular or unstable, and relax the requirements for the quality of the output signal. It's a bit like a radio or an old TV: some will receive signals even if the background is noisy, and some choose to filter those signals that it considers unclear. From the upstream plan, they all made the right choice.

In general, the CS chip receives the standard SPDIF is no problem (such as the E30 connected to a computer, D10S and other devices), but when the E30 connected to the device SPDIF output is not standard enough, so that because of the two together lead to incompatibility (such as CD players)".

End Quotes

Lets Read the last sentence of Your Service departments admission....sorry ...reply again

"In general, the CS chip receives the standard SPDIF is no problem (such as the E30 connected to a computer, D10S and other devices), but when the E30 connected to the device SPDIF output is not standard enough, so that because of the two together lead to incompatibility (such as CD players)". ...

I am no Tech Head so let me know if I perhaps read it wrong ?..

Bill

 

[JohnYang1997]

Ok john ...Unfortunately I don't have one of your D30 pro DACS ..I just have one of your E30 s that doesn't work....if only i had a D30 Pro...we probably wouldn't be having this conversation....Maybe this could explain why the D30 works...and the E30 doesn't...So from your statement the D30 must just be exactly the same electronically as the New E30 in all other respects so maybe should be called the same name.?..

Here's the rest of the reply I got from your service centre.. ..could be other reasons combining for the problem to cause this outcome with the CS chip in the 'New' E30

If you could please read the whole response before you post that i am Incorrect and contact the company for a new 'Reason' why this doesn't happen that would be appreciated ..Thanj You..


And i Quote This is from YOUR companies Service department.

"The CS8416 have chosen a way: to reduce the fault tolerance to ensure a better output signal. AKM’s AK4118 chose another path: as compatible as possible with the input signal even if it is irregular or unstable, and relax the requirements for the quality of the output signal. It's a bit like a radio or an old TV: some will receive signals even if the background is noisy, and some choose to filter those signals that it considers unclear. From the upstream plan, they all made the right choice.

In general, the CS chip receives the standard SPDIF is no problem (such as the E30 connected to a computer, D10S and other devices), but when the E30 connected to the device SPDIF output is not standard enough, so that because of the two together lead to incompatibility (such as CD players)".

Lets Read the last sentence of Your Service departments admission....sorry ...reply again

"In general, the CS chip receives the standard SPDIF is no problem (such as the E30 connected to a computer, D10S and other devices), but when the E30 connected to the device SPDIF output is not standard enough, so that because of the two together lead to incompatibility (such as CD players)". ...I am no Tech Head so let me know if I perhaps i read it wrong ?..

Bill

If you continue to ignore everything I said and cherry picking statements to form your opinion. Then good luck have fun. You do you. You are no longer welcomed.

 

[billdylan]

This is not ...And i quote you "Cherry picking statements to form your opinion"

To try and deny your own Companys official replies as " Your Opinions" is shameful and sullies your reputation.

I am sure enough have read this thread to know the reality of the Situation ..and the reality of your position and the company you work for ..

Bill

 

[audio2design]

Sorry ....me again i thought you all might enjoy one line from Toppings Service Centre's latest email regarding the Topping E30 With the new CS.8416 chip as opposed to the old AK chipped model ..

And I Quote...

.."The CS8416 have chosen a way: to reduce the fault tolerance to ensure a better output signal. AKM’s AK4118 chose another path: as compatible as possible with the input signal even if it is irregular or unstable ".

Finally !!...Guess that explains why it won't work with the 3 CD players and 3 DVD players I have tried

Draw your own conclusions guys...

Bill

Conclusion, if you want one, buy an old one on EBAY.

 

[audio2design]

There is no avoiding that it is deceptive without some other clear indicator, to use the exact same product name for what is a different product with significantly different performance. The average customer does not have a clue about AKM or Cirrus, and will see E30, look at all the reviews on the web, and think, cool. Little do they know, if they use SPDIF, they are buying a different product. Yes, a different product with the same name on it.

Of course, from an FCC standpoint, this would be significant enough to require a different test and be considered a different product.

 

[audio2design]

What is the problem here? Is it that the CS8416 is being expected to deal with really bad, out of spec levels of jitter, and failing? Or is the CS8416 a faulty design and cannot handle "normal" amounts? Or is the E30 using a bad implementation?

The question is, does it matter. As a customer, you don't really care. You bought with one expectation, you got another.

John, you are giving a master class in how not to do customer service. Topping is not Tesla and you are not Elon Musk. Defending your company is fine, being dismissive is not. The customer has a valid issue. You can correct misstatements w.r.t. the customer, but to just be dismissive does not work. The two parts are different. The AKM is obviously better. You should rename the product when it uses the Cirrus. It is not the same product. Whether it worked well in something else you make or how it behaves in competitor products is meaningless. We are talking E30 here.

To the op, it may sounds silly, but play around with cable length .. I think you are using co-ax? Get a longer one, >= 2M. Perhaps there is an issue with your unit, cable, etc. w.r.t. impedance matching. Going 2M+ pushes the reflection outside the critical timing area. You can also go really short, i.e. 0.5M and see what happens.

 

[Atanasi]

The average customer does not have a clue about AKM or Cirrus, and will see E30, look at all the reviews on the web, and think, cool.

There is no guarantee, though, that a review would catch this issue. I suspect a reviewer would use a SPDIF transmitter connected to a computer, which doesn't probably trigger a problem.

 

[audio2design]

There is no guarantee, though, that a review would catch this issue. I suspect a reviewer would use a SPDIF transmitter connected to a computer, which doesn't probably trigger a problem.

I agree, but there are a plethora of web reviews and if this is a common issue, it will start showing up in Amazon reviews, etc.

 

[billdylan]

There is no avoiding that it is deceptive without some other clear indicator, to use the exact same product name for what is a different product with significantly different performance. The average customer does not have a clue about AKM or Cirrus, and will see E30, look at all the reviews on the web, and think, cool. Little do they know, if they use SPDIF, they are buying a different product. Yes, a different product with the same name on it.

Of course, from an FCC standpoint, this would be significant enough to require a different test and be considered a different product.

The Topping Service Centre Replies To My Queries are Posted verbatim in my posts Above...To Have "Johnyang "as an Employee of Topping posting His opinions ..Appearing as An Unbiased Voice on this site Is Despicable.....He Does ..The Attacks on myself whilst I Reprint Email replies Actually admitting the problem From Toppings Service Department ....is worthy Of Donald Trump And 'Alternative facts' Brigade..

JohnYang is a Fine Contributor to the Site in many ways...But In The End Of The Day He Is an Employee Or Spokesperson for topping.....For Some reason He Does Not wish To clarify his relationship with Topping industries

Sorry This Has Been So Heavy And Distasteful ...But Why Should Topping Leave People Like myself and their many sellers stuck with their mistake With no sense of responsibility on their part..The New Topping E30 Is An Inferior Beast.to the old E30..It Doesn't do what it says on the tin ..As For Johnyang and my unpleasant dealings with him...belittling ..smug ..rude ...only to backpeddle when proved wrong Then Contact Topping Control and Start the denial -Smug-Rude cycle again ? If Attack Is The Best Form Of defence....When Defending Your Employers ...John Has it Off To a Fine Art..

Believe it or not I could have done without any of this .I Don't like any of this

But...each new Deflection by Topping has Angered Me Enough to keep going ...And when That Faded.....Johnyang Would Reply In His Inimitable way and Keep My sense Of How Unfair A Company and its employee can be in evading their Responsibilities ..Which Are In Case You Need To Know ...Honesty and transparency....Back to Johnyang again.?. ...I'm Pretty Sure I'll Get Nowhere with Topping And Johnyang...I'm just one guy..But it only takes one guy to say 'Enough' !!

Thanks Again...Bill

 

[billdylan]

Conclusion, if you want one, buy an old one on EBAY.

I would have...If Only Topping Had Let Buyers Know the CS chipped E30 Would not work with CD players unlike The AK Chipped E30.....As They Have Done now that its to late for me ...(See The Email replies from Topping Service Department posted above Stating there Is a Problem }..,but hopefully It Will Let Prospective buyers know To Buy a Secondhand one off Ebay....As You Advise Retrospectively...

Thanks

 

[threni]

I would have...If Only Topping Had Let Buyers Know it Might not work with CD players...As They Have Done ...now that its to late... (See The Email replies from Topping Service Department posted above } Above ...Also..If Toyota Stopped Selling Cars With Wheels how would I know without them telling me....And When it Arrives Without Wheels.. Should take your advice and buy one with wheels from Ebay ...it must be my fault...Also ?..What Should I Do With The One Toyata Sold me Without Wheels ?..

You've not been so angry since you bought that keyboard with the dodgy shift key, right?

Did we establish why you've decided not to return it for a refund? It's faulty - for your purposes, anyway. Are consumer protection laws that bad where you are?

 

[billdylan]

I agree, but there are a plethora of web reviews and if this is a common issue, it will start showing up in Amazon reviews, etc.

Most People Check Reviews On Google .....There Are Many For The Old E30.....They Are what People Read...And Fuel Audio Sales .....Amazon Reviews ?...Do Many go to Amazon for Reviews ?..Maybe They do......I Usually Go To Hi Fi sites With Respected reviewers when Looking up Audio Equipment Reviews ..Maybe thats Just Me..

 

[threni]

Of course, from an FCC standpoint, this would be significant enough to require a different test and be considered a different product.

Why - does the new version of the E30 contain a radio transmitter?

 

[billdylan]

You've not been so angry since you bought that keyboard with the dodgy shift key, right?

Did we establish why you've decided not to return it for a refund? It's faulty - for your purposes, anyway. Are consumer protection laws that bad where you are?

The question is, does it matter. As a customer, you don't really care. You bought with one expectation, you got another.

John, you are giving a master class in how not to do customer service. Topping is not Tesla and you are not Elon Musk. Defending your company is fine, being dismissive is not. The customer has a valid issue. You can correct misstatements w.r.t. the customer, but to just be dismissive does not work. The two parts are different. The AKM is obviously better. You should rename the product when it uses the Cirrus. It is not the same product. Whether it worked well in something else you make or how it behaves in competitor products is meaningless. We are talking E30 here.

To the op, it may sounds silly, but play around with cable length .. I think you are using co-ax? Get a longer one, >= 2M. Perhaps there is an issue with your unit, cable, etc. w.r.t. impedance matching. Going 2M+ pushes the reflection outside the critical timing area. You can also go really short, i.e. 0.5M and see what happens.

Thanks for your Post ..
I appreciate your comments and advice ..Thank You.

However I realise i am just banging my head against the wall ..As For John. " A respected contributor .."..I'm sure he is very Knowledgeable and a great asset But Certainly not independent in any stretch of the word ...the man works for Topping ...In which capacity .?.He does not seem inclined to answer..
Toppings Service Centre Admits a problem via Email...The Companys reply is Pasted into one of my previous posts .John Dismisses this reply and me for posting it..and no one else reads it or pulls him up ( apart from yourself ) As experiences on forums go I've had better one's ha ha........
No one will even notice If John and Topping bully their way out of this....unless they buy an E30.....I hate dishonest responses about the products changed abilities and that many like me could buy and have the same Dismal experience with Topping and its representative on this site


Thanks again

Bill

 

[billdylan]

You've not been so angry since you bought that keyboard with the dodgy shift key, right?

Did we establish why you've decided not to return it for a refund? It's faulty - for your purposes, anyway. Are consumer protection laws that bad where you are?

I think " Its just faulty" is what you mean......If I buy a bucket and it has a hole in it.............( Damned Shift Key).........
Then I guess its just not fit for my purposes by that definition

 

[threni]

I think " Its just faulty" is what you mean......If I buy a bucket and it has a hole in it.............( Damned Shift Key).........
Then I guess its just not fit for my purposes by that definition

I have an E30 which I use daily. Maybe the spdif input is broken. Maybe it's not. I don't care - I'll never use it so I'll never know. Does my bucket have a hole in it? You can be sure if the USB input didn't support my Pi I'd have returned it immediately.

 

[billdylan]

Thats Great ..Your Bucket Has A Hole In a bit of it You Don't use ....