Topping E50 DAC Crackling Noise Issue on Windows 11

[filipduarte]

Hi everyone,

I have a Topping E50 DAC and an L50 amplifier. Recently, after switching to a Lenovo Legion Slim 5i, I forgot to install the specific Topping driver for the E50 and initially used the standard Windows driver. After installing the updated driver (v5.62), I started experiencing a crackling noise when using apps like Spotify or Qobuz, and even on video players like VLC. The issue goes away with the standard Windows driver but persists with any version of the Topping driver from v5.27 onwards, which is the first version to include drivers for the E50. On my old PC with Windows 10, this never happened. Since I can't go back to Windows 10 for work reasons, I wonder if anyone has faced this issue on Windows 11 and can offer a solution. Thanks!

 

[staticV3]

Try following this guide and setting Streaming to Always On:

XMOS driver settings for no cutoff/delay

I was contemplating on creating a "tutorial" of sorts for all XMOS drivers on devices that have a cutoff -- latency between the start of a sound and the dac "reacting" and actually playing said sound... So here it is: XMOS drivers use a control panel not unlike this: Usually the "Options"...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[filipduarte]

Thanks for the earlier help. I followed the tutorial and managed to access the hidden option in the driver executable, but the crackling still persists. I tried disabling USB device power management that connects to the E50 in the Windows device manager and also adjusted the power options, but no luck. The crackling is noticeable even when using Spotify, without resorting to advanced features like MQA or ASIO. I'll keep searching for a solution.

 

[KomoGomolaa]

Do you really need to use the "official" Topping/Thesycon driver? For very similar reason (crackling starting to occur AFTER I've been listening to music for a couple of hours - whatever app) I have definitely stopped using it and reverted back to Windows stock UAC2 driver as soon as I had discovered/verified that the stock driver in Windows for my E50/DX7Pro+ 1) is bit-perfect 2) has been developed by, guess who, Thesycon (although funded by Microsoft). I don't see any reason why not to go with the default driver. I have been enjoying crackling-free playback with my E50/DX7Pro+ ever since.

 

[filipduarte]

I don't use any advanced features like MQA or ASIO, so I don't really need the Topping driver. My only question is about a component that shows up in the device manager without a driver, named 'Topping DFU'. I'm guessing DFU stands for Driver Firmware Update. If it is, it's a way to update the firmware of the E50, right? If that's the case, I'll just leave it there and only install the driver if I need to update the firmware, then remove it afterward. Anyway, it's a bit odd that Thesycon, the same company that makes the Topping driver, would have this kind of issue.

 

[KomoGomolaa]

You can safely disable/ignore the Topping DFU item in Device Manager and just enjoy the sound of the Topping DAC The older I get the more I enjoy when things just work. Carpe diem!

 

[filipduarte]

Alright, thanks for the tips. I'll stick with the Windows driver, one less thing to remember to update, especially since it doesn't update automatically.
The sad part is that the company should be aware that besides us two, there are likely more people facing the same issue, and the driver might need to be revisited.
It's a tricky situation...

 

[CaféNoir]

Glad I found this thread, I face the same issue on Windows 11, with the Topping E30 II Lite I just received: soft random pops and ticks during playback through USB (whatever the software; also present on wasapi event style with Jriver).

I uninstalled the Topping USB driver, and playback is fine, except there seems to be a glitch where I sometimes loose the ability to adjust volume on Windows. Don't know if it is a windows issue or Dac firmware.

 

[filipduarte]

I uninstalled the Topping USB driver, and playback is fine, except I lost the ability to control volume in Windows.

That's so weird. Changing the level on the system slider doesn't make any difference?

 

[CaféNoir]

That's so weird. Changing the level on the system slider doesn't make any difference?

Correction, it worked for some time then did not again... I edited my message. Will investigate a bit more

 

[filipduarte]

Great, I wonder how many others are going through this, without realizing it or even thinking the DAC is bad! I really think Topping should reconsider this driver...

 

[CaféNoir]

Yes, in 2023 you would think USB audio should be a solved issue. I have an old DIY DAC which usb implementation has been working like clockwork for 8 years.
@JohnYang1997 , if you are passing by, I think it is worth taking a look. Maybe it has something to do with the new Windows 11 update?

 

[Saponetto]

If you are referring on the infamous problem that users of W11 23H2 are experiencing, it seems to be just related on an abnormal use of gpu and performance loss caused by a safety routine required by cpu virtualization.
Microsoft already supplied a workaround, useful to clear this issue waiting for a better release (crossing fingers heh...).
Afaik, it should not interfere either with UAC2 or WASAPI-ASIO drivers, even if a tiny N5100 processor is used.

 

[filipduarte]

If you are referring on the infamous problem that users of W11 23H2 are experiencing, it seems to be just related on an abnormal use of gpu and performance loss caused by a safety routine required by cpu virtualization.
Microsoft already supplied a workaround, useful to clear this issue waiting for a better release (crossing fingers heh...).
Afaik, it should not interfere either with UAC2 or WASAPI-ASIO drivers, even if a tiny N5100 processor is used.

Well, although I was satisfied to have found a solution to my problem, my curiosity didn't let me stop there.
I kept investigating and found that these noises are caused by spikes in the DPC (Deferred Procedure Calls) latency.
This Reddit post tries in some way to find a solution to the problem, and I'm diving down this rabbit hole:

Fix for high DPC latency - wdf01000, ntoskrnl, storport and more

I'm also sending a screenshot of my system analysis, showing how the Nvidia driver is the culprit for the crackling sounds I've been hearing:

Spoiler: Screenshot

This problem seems to be related to this clumsy Windows 11 update. (Apparently, the main problem is indeed with the Nvidia driver. However, it's still not clear whether there was any worsening due to the Windows update or not)
I'll continue investigating and trying to find a solution.
Now, I'm really curious about how the standard Windows audio driver manages to escape this situation.

 

[Saponetto]

FYI, I was answering @CaféNoir about the W11 23H2 update.
Anyway, don't rely on any untrustworthy third party application that seems to just show you some obvious hints.
Being the Legion Slim a device clearly aimed at gaming, my suggestion would be to purge, or at least disable, all of the gaming suites and AI bloatware in order to achieve a more predictable HW behavior when used as a pure digital music source.
Of course, it's just my 5 Cents.

 

[Titmouse]

Well, although I was satisfied to have found a solution to my problem, my curiosity didn't let me stop there.
I kept investigating and found that these noises are caused by spikes in the DPC (Deferred Procedure Calls) latency.
This Reddit post tries in some way to find a solution to the problem, and I'm diving down this rabbit hole:

Fix for high DPC latency - wdf01000, ntoskrnl, storport and more

I'm also sending a screenshot of my system analysis, showing how the Nvidia driver is the culprit for the crackling sounds I've been hearing:

Spoiler: Screenshot

View attachment 336695

This problem seems to be related to this clumsy Windows 11 update. (Apparently, the main problem is indeed with the Nvidia driver. However, it's still not clear whether there was any worsening due to the Windows update or not)
I'll continue investigating and trying to find a solution.
Now, I'm really curious about how the standard Windows audio driver manages to escape this situation.

I was about to post this program but you already found it.

I went through this on my media PC build. Windows 11 overall was much more finicky with crackling so I am back to windows 10. The most noticeable fix was to revert from PCIE4 to PCIE3 in my bios because the GPU riser cable I'm using in my small form factor case isn't capable of utilizing PCIE4 properly. Other things that helped while trying fixes were to not use supplied BIOS XMP profiles, although I'm using those now that I disabled PCIE4. The only time I hear a short crackle is when I pause something.

You can mess around with various bios settings as it appears this crackle is quite a old recurring issue with unique circumstances that cause the DPC latency. I found threads from over 10 years ago on Dell home PC's up to custom builds using all types of hardware.

Some people had to go as deep as tuning their CPU voltage to remove crackles.

EDIT: If your content isn't crazy high resolution, try reducing sound quality in windows. Leaving it the highest 32bit 384khz will increase latency in my testing.