Jerry Harvey (JH) Custom IEM Review

[solderdude]

When it is fed wireless it will be low power and probably low impedance. Usually the output resistance is not specified for the headphone out.
Several ohm is not unlikely given the RF unfriendly environment they could be used in to prevent RF from entering the feedback loop of the output stage.
More worried for owners plugging it in their audio interfaces.

Many people love Audeze (as they are... tonally) and these measure somewhat similar to the Roxanne (>1kHz) but when driven from higher output Z the Roxanne will be sounding noticeably more 'muffled'.

 

[Geert]

How is the IEM fed in live performances? Wireless receiver? If so, what is their typical output impedance?

I use MiPro and PSM 900 Shure wireless receivers. They don't publish output impedance. What they mention in the specifications is:

• MiPro: Earphone Impedance ≧ 16 Ω
• Shure: Minimum Load Impedance 9.5 Ω

 

[amirm]

Oh. In that case the response changes even more as @solderdude nicely pointed out.

 

[InfiniteJester]

Crazy to think a 20usd IEM like 7Hz Zero 2 is better in every sense.

7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM Review

This is a review, listening tests, EQ and detailed measurements of the 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM. It was kindly donated to me by a member and costs US $24.99. The cable is soft and longer than typical which I like. They take fair amount of effort to push it but then they make a reassuring...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Except in the sense of the fit. Which is impossible to get with the Zero 2 for many of us.

 

[Robbo99999]

You do realize my post was talking about stage monitors right? I'm aware of headphone/iem targets. Please read the body of posts in detail before replying.

I've been reading your posts already. Yes, I know you're talking about stage monitors. What is "neutral" for a stage monitor, what does that even mean, how do you know the frequency response of this IEM is "neutral for a stage monitor", what studies or research has been done to determine what is "neutral for a stage monitor".

Harmon? For a live monitor? Why?


I thought Harman was 'preferred', not 'neutral'?

Preferred for home listening when the purpose is listening for pleasure.

The purpose here is hearing the other band members. Bass boost is not necessary. Low distortion, sound isolation, and a reasonably flat response are the only criteria that matter.

It's true that it's about "preferred" rather than strictly "neutral", but the end result at which they arrived was close to how the dummy head measures in that Harman Listening Room with those Anechoic Flat Speakers they used, albeit the Headphone Harman Curve has a bit more bass and a touch more treble. The Harman researchers theorised that headphone listeners preferred more bass in headphones because headphones lack the tactile bass impact (what you feel in your body) of speakers. The 2013 Harman Headphone Curve is probably the most strictly neutral, as it doesn't have quite as much bass & treble vs the 2018 Harman Headphone Curve (with the 2018 version being the version used here on ASR and on Oratory's EQ reddit, and everywhere else that Harman Curve is mentioned). So yes, you're right that the headphone Harman Curve is based on preference, albeit the preference part was just tweaking the bass & treble from a baseline measurement at eardrum in a dummy head that was in Harman Listening Room of good Anechoic Flat Speakers that had been EQ'd to in-room flat (ie no slope on the in-room measurement). So yes, you're right that preference was used as part of the creation process for the Headphone Harman Curve, but they ended up arriving very close to what would be measured of Anechoic Flat Speakers in a good listening room at the eardrum of a dummy head - so in that sense the Headphone Harman Curve is the closest thing we have to "neutral".

 

[solderdude]

I use MiPro and PSM 900 Shure wireless receivers. They don't publish output impedance. What they mention in the specifications is:

• MiPro: Earphone Impedance ≧ 16 Ω
• Shure: Minimum Load Impedance 9.5 Ω

That only says something about the minimum load impedance it was designed for but sadly says nothing about source impedance which can be anything from 0 ohm to a several ohm.
It would have to be measured. Sennheiser also does not public output resistance. For battery powered devices a low output impedance makes sense.

 

[Ktacos]

I've been reading your posts already. Yes, I know you're talking about stage monitors. What is "neutral" for a stage monitor, what does that even mean, how do you know the frequency response of this IEM is "neutral for a stage monitor", what studies or research has been done to determine what is "neutral for a stage monitor".

A stage monitor is a speaker, so it's gonna follow all the same rules to achieve neutral sound as any other speaker.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

How is the IEM fed in live performances? Wireless receiver? If so, what is their typical output impedance?

98% of the time it is fed with a wireless receiver. There are 3 companies that dominate this market. Sennheiser, Shure and Wisycom. I have no idea what the output impedance is for any of them. The Wisycom pack has a setting for either 16 ohm or 32 ohm in-ears. I have been using the Wisycom stuff (due to massive decrease in wireless bandwidth) for the last 4 years. I always put them on the 16 ohm setting. When the Roxannes first came out, the older Shure packs had a lot of trouble generating enough power to keep up with them. I think this had to do with using 1.4volt double A batteries because it was fixed when we would use the Shure 4volt rechargeable batteries.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Oh. In that case the response changes even more as @solderdude nicely pointed out.

Funny that you figured this out. I was speaking with someone in the industry the other day and it's a constant problem for us. The frequency response changes drastically depending on how loud we turn them up and which wireless system we use combined with which IEM we use. These little belt packs are battery powered and have a lot of wireless circuitry in them so there isn't a lot of space for a good amplifier.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

When it is fed wireless it will be low power and probably low impedance. Usually the output resistance is not specified for the headphone out.
Several ohm is not unlikely given the RF unfriendly environment they could be used in to prevent RF from entering the feedback loop of the output stage.
More worried for owners plugging it in their audio interfaces.

Many people love Audeze (as they are... tonally) and these measure somewhat similar to the Roxanne (>1kHz) but when driven from higher output Z the Roxanne will be sounding noticeably more 'muffled'.
View attachment 392008


View attachment 392026

You nailed it. The Roxannes sound more low mid range heavy as we turn things up. Again, this is why I'm always EQ'ing out 200Hz-500Hz, which if you look at the frequency response, will make it closer to the harmon curve. It's not lacking bass and treble, it has too much mid-range (or maybe those are the same thing). It gets worse with a poor performing amplifier. It's interesting to see the science to something that we have always experienced and dealt with.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

I use MiPro and PSM 900 Shure wireless receivers. They don't publish output impedance. What they mention in the specifications is:

• MiPro: Earphone Impedance ≧ 16 Ω
• Shure: Minimum Load Impedance 9.5 Ω

Oh man, can you get clean frequencies for the PSM900?? This is obviously off topic, but given today's RF environment that would be tough

 

[brandall10]

Ok, let´s specify, heavily popularized and brought to a decent level.

That distinction goes to Etymotic. The ER4 dates back to '91 and they were easily the most popular high end IEM when I found head-fi in 2003, probably as much as a Sennheiser 600. It was a situation where they just completely owned the market and mindshare for what a top performing IEM was. It wasn't until the Shure e500 was released that the focus shifted away.

While UE had some presence, my recollection is people shied away from customs until the UE10 came out in '05 or so. That one was considered so good that it kinda put customs on the map as an option many head-fiers really coveted. Otherwise they were seen mostly as a tool for musicians.

I think it's fair to call JH the father of multi-driver customs, which is pretty important category in head-fi.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

That distinction goes to Etymotic. The ER4 dates back to '91 and they were easily the most popular high end IEM when I found head-fi in 2003, probably as much as a Sennheiser 600. It was a situation where they just completely owned the market and mindshare for what a top performing IEM was. It wasn't until the Shure e500 was released that the focus shifted away.

While UE had some presence, my recollection is people shied away from customs until the UE10 came out in '05 or so. That one was considered so good that it kinda put customs on the map as an option many head-fiers really coveted. Otherwise they were seen mostly as a tool for musicians.

I think it's fair to call JH the father of multi-driver customs, which is pretty important category in head-fi.

I'm no expert on the history of all of this but here's some additional perspective that focuses on the Pro Audio Industry:
Marty Garcia, owner of Future Sonics began using in-ear monitors on stage in 1982 with Todd Rundgren. He is arguably the first person to popularize them in Pro Audio. Lots can be learned from his website and he has some great products.

About Future Sonics

futuresonics.com

UE was definitely the first company widely used in Pro Audio/ On stage by performers. This was happening in the late 90's and early 2000's and most people were on the UE7's. The UE10's and UE11's were the next popular move since they had more low end. Of course, these were all Jerry Harvey Designs. Jerry has a great reputation and is well liked in the Pro Audio Community. His designs then went into the JH stuff in 2007 and set the standard for a decade. They are still one of the most popular brands used by musicians on stage. And I agree that it's fair to say that he is the father of multi-driver customs and his designs have powered more live concerts than anyone else's by a long shot.

 

[Geert]

Oh man, can you get clean frequencies for the PSM900?? This is obviously off topic, but given today's RF environment that would be tough

In the bands that don't require a permission max. 16 frequencies. But clean, that's another story. It has become a challenge since they reserved additional spectrum for things like digital TV. My old 7 channel Mipro rack became worthless since then, it went straight to the recycling centre.

 

[Robbo99999]

A stage monitor is a speaker, so it's gonna follow all the same rules to achieve neutral sound as any other speaker.

Ah, sorry, I thought you were talking about IEM's and specifically IEM's used in Live settings by musicians. Didn't you say somewhere though that the IEM being reviewed here was "neutral" for purposes of an IEM used in Live settings by musicians? In which case the arguments I've been using would apply to that aspect, but if you don't think that then I've just been bothering you for no reason!

 

[anaveragebear]

I'm by no means an expert, but as I understand it, a resonant spike will always occur depending on the insertion depth. He "targets" the 8kHz spike across all IEMs to establish a standard measurement technique (read the above link above for a more thorough explanation). I think the take-away is that you need to be wary of IEM graphs above 6kHz. A consistent protocol can give an overview of how IEMs in upper frequencies compare to one another - but not necessarily how they will sound to each listener.

In practice, whether and at what frequency you hear a resonance peak in your own ears with IEMs depends on the structure of your ear canal and how the IEM interfaces with it. For example, I know that I usually can expect a resonance somewhere between 7 and 8kHz of around 4-7dB that I find and EQ out with sine sweeps in my IEMs. But for you it would be different.

 

[Rusk Reeder]

These are basically on-stage drummersx headphones. Some have been persuaded to pony up that much money.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

These are basically on-stage drummersx headphones. Some have been persuaded to pony up that much money.

Do you know how much work goes into making a custom IEM?

 

[mig59]

Do you know how much work goes into making a custom IEM?

Custom shelling is not some prohibitive exercise that has to cost $2000 more than an equivalent universal. Custom JH13s were less than half the price of these Roxannes, and there was an entry level model (JH5?) that was less than a quarter the price but still got you a custom shelled multi-driver JH IEM

 

[LevityProject]

A good friend of mine who mixes front of house at a performing arts centre tested the Salnotes zeros against his JH customs at a show recently, and mentioned that he couldn't hear a big difference as he switched back and forth during the show.

It was only in testing in his studio that he could hear large differences in tonality ... including the resonance in the zeros in their top end and their squished soundstage.

Live sound environments can mask a lot of "problems" ... But I think it says something that a well-tuned $20 IEM can sound nearly as good as a $2000 custom fitted IEM when comparing in their intended use scenarios.