Jerry Harvey (JH) Custom IEM Review

[Ktacos]

I love when people explain to me how my job works

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

I love when people explain how my job works lol.

Not sure what that means or if it's even aimed at me but I'm happy to elaborate more if necessary.

 

[Ktacos]

Not sure what that means or if it's even aimed at me but I'm happy to elaborate more if necessary.

As someone who has done countless monitor mixes both speaker and IEM, I'm well versed in the technical and subjective aspects of the reproduction systems and how they are tailored to performers. I'm aware of foldback, seal issues, pretty much everything related to monitoring, and the realities of the work and research on the topics disagrees with most of your claims you're making. I actually don't want you to elaborate in the hopes you will no longer flood the thread pages with misinformation.

 

[FTB]

2k for this

 

[Robbo99999]

We do know what it is, it's neutral as is generally allows for higher spl before feedback and gives the monitor engineer a predictable response to tailor to the performer. In shows where there is time and the crew cares, I will walk around the stage checking the monitors response on stage giving the FOH guy feedback on EQ to apply to get things neutral.

"Neutral", what's that supposed to mean, in my understanding this IEM's tuning is so far removed from neutral that it's ridiculous!

 

[Ktacos]

"Neutral", what's that supposed to mean, in my understanding this IEM's tuning is so far removed from neutral that it's ridiculous!

I have no idea what you're trying to ask or say here.

 

[Robbo99999]

I have no idea what you're trying to ask or say here.

You haven't followed the Harman Research then? You can't just draw lines on a graph yourself & call it neutral. The closest thing to neutral scientifically in headphones & IEM's is the Harman Headphone Curve. Or are you assuming it's "neutral" because it's almost a flat horizontal line from 20Hz - 5000Hz........news that is not neutral!

 

[solderdude]

It's drastically different to listen to someone sing on in-ears vs. being the singer since you're hearing your own head voice and the in-ears at the same time.

Not to mention a possible delay due to some processing in the monitor path.

 

[AudioJester]

JH was revolutionary in the live scene.

The problem arose when the headfi fanboys put it on a pedastal for the average home user. This brand was hyped up so much, while being overpriced and underperforimg. JH was pushed as your salon2 or kef blade, 8381 etc.

 

[Ktacos]

You haven't followed the Harman Research then? You can't just draw lines on a graph yourself & call it neutral. The closest thing to neutral scientifically in headphones & IEM's is the Harman Headphone Curve. Or are you assuming it's "neutral" because it's almost a flat horizontal line from 20Hz - 5000Hz........news that is not neutral!

You do realize my post was talking about stage monitors right? I'm aware of headphone/iem targets. Please read the body of posts in detail before replying.

 

[dzerig]

Harmon? For a live monitor? Why?

You haven't followed the Harman Research then? You can't just draw lines on a graph yourself & call it neutral. The closest thing to neutral scientifically in headphones & IEM's is the Harman Headphone Curve. Or are you assuming it's "neutral" because it's almost a flat horizontal line from 20Hz - 5000Hz........news that is not neutral!

I thought Harman was 'preferred', not 'neutral'?

Preferred for home listening when the purpose is listening for pleasure.

The purpose here is hearing the other band members. Bass boost is not necessary. Low distortion, sound isolation, and a reasonably flat response are the only criteria that matter.

 

[Ktacos]

I thought Harman was 'preferred', not 'neutral'?

There is a Harman room curve, and a Harman IEM/headphone target, they're different. The headphone target aims to reproduce the sound of a neutral speaker. This discussion is focusing on the headphone/IEM target.

The Relationship between Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality

Above: The brands and models of six popular headphones used in this study. In many ways, our scientific understanding of the percepti...

seanolive.blogspot.com

Harman Target Curve Explained - Audiosolace

The Harman curve is one of the gold standards in industry frequency responses for headphones. This allows a buyer appreciate a device's frequency response

audiosolace.com

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

As someone who has done countless monitor mixes both speaker and IEM, I'm well versed in the technical and subjective aspects of the reproduction systems and how they are tailored to performers. I'm aware of foldback, seal issues, pretty much everything related to monitoring, and the realities of the work and research on the topics disagrees with most of your claims you're making. I actually don't want you to elaborate in the hopes you will no longer flood the thread pages with misinformation.

Eek. I'm happy to have an adult conversation about any disagreements here and I certainly didn't mean to offend you, but I promise that I am speaking well within my area of expertise. Please feel free to elaborate on the disagreements from research or any realities that you have experienced but calling my perspective "misinformation" is pretty funny to me. If you mix monitors for a living (as I do) then we might even know each other since it's a small world.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Not to mention a possible delay due to some processing in the monitor path.

No doubt on this. I recently measured my latency at 2 milliseconds from the input of the console to the output of the wireless in-ear pack, which is well within reason. But once you start adding plug-ins or outboard gear then it can get really weird. That coupled with what's coming back in the room can be wild and problematic. I worked with a Front of House Engineer that was using so much processing it was throwing off the musicians on stage because the kick drum in the PA was so far behind what was actually being played.

 

[AudioJester]

@ThatSoundsGood
I get your points about customs for live stage work etc.
But would you really recommend JH for a home user given price/performance and what else is available?

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

@ThatSoundsGood
I get your points about customs for live stage work etc.
But would you really recommend JH for a home user given price/performance and what else is available?

Absolutely not. Most people in the Pro Live industry don't particularly enjoy these for casual listening and Amir's tests confirmed why. The frequency response is not ideal and they don't match on the left to right. The few times I tried to do a studio mix with them turned out awful.

 

[Ktacos]

Eek. I'm happy to have an adult conversation about any disagreements here and I certainly didn't mean to offend you, but I promise that I am speaking well within my area of expertise. Please feel free to elaborate on the disagreements from research or any realities that you have experienced but calling my perspective "misinformation" is pretty funny to me. If you mix monitors for a living (as I do) then we might even know each other since it's a small world.

As long as you're on the whole "poor response is better for live" there's not really anything to discuss.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

As long as you're on the whole "poor response is better for live" there's not really anything to discuss.

I didn't say anything about poor response being better for live. I said that the frequency response on these is less important because we have EQ on every input and output. I also said that there is more low end response in these than measured because of the seal in the ear. Have you ever mixed a show with Roxanne in-ears?

 

[Ktacos]

I didn't say anything about poor response being better for live. I said that the frequency response on these is less important because we have EQ on every input and output. I also said that there is more low end response in these than measured because of the seal in the ear. Have you ever mixed a show with Roxanne in-ears?

I would not put any JH products in my ears based off this review. I prefer to not have say, the 2k range be 10db lower than it should. That's why this sort of poor response is a problem. It's my job to translate to what the performer requests into technical terms and adjust accordingly via EQ, I also try to save peoples ears. If someone was wearing this pair of IEM's and asked for more in the 2k region, I'd be looking at +15-20db which can be a little concerning without knowing the IEM's response, which you never know with customs.

Google results turn up some more junk from JH

A Korean website measured the JH Roxanne

A Korean website measured the JH Roxanne

www.changstar.com

Absolutely terrible. No excuse for that.

So my overall point is still that the baseline that you have to work with to EQ the IEM's for the performer matters a lot.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

I would not put any JH products in my ears based off this review. I prefer to not have say, the 2k range be 10db lower than it should. That's why this sort of poor response is a problem. It's my job to translate to what the performer requests into technical terms and adjust accordingly via EQ, I also try to save peoples ears. If someone was wearing this pair of IEM's and asked for more in the 2k region, I'd be looking at +15-20db which can be a little concerning without knowing the IEM's response, which you never know with customs.

Google results turn up some more junk from JH

A Korean website measured the JH Roxanne

A Korean website measured the JH Roxanne

www.changstar.com

Absolutely terrible. No excuse for that.

So my overall point is still that the baseline that you have to work with to EQ the IEM's for the performer matters a lot.

Fair points, but I promise that you won't ever be adding 15-20db of anything with these. They're more like 3-5db shy in the top end which is pretty standard. Which custom in-ears do you prefer?