Here's a link to a Polish review with pictures of the crossover, cabinet insides, and drivers:
https://hi-fi.com.pl/testy/kolumny/5939-jbl-l52-classic.html
https://hi-fi.com.pl/testy/kolumny/5939-jbl-l52-classic.html
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JBL L52 Classic review by Erin's Audio Corner
- Thread starter thewas
- Start date
Two things to note visually:
-the L52 is tiny! I knew it was small, but having used the M105 and Def Tech 9, I was still taken a little aback by how small the L52s are. They also have a shallower cabinet than many smaller speakers I've used.
-The shade of blue on the blue grills is significantly darker than shown in the photos, and it has a slight green tint. This was a pleasant surprise as I like the IRL color quite a bit more.
-the L52 is tiny! I knew it was small, but having used the M105 and Def Tech 9, I was still taken a little aback by how small the L52s are. They also have a shallower cabinet than many smaller speakers I've used.
-The shade of blue on the blue grills is significantly darker than shown in the photos, and it has a slight green tint. This was a pleasant surprise as I like the IRL color quite a bit more.
I am curious if you can try
Masterpieces in Miniature
San Francisco Symphony
Michael Tilson Thomas, conductor
Yuja Wang, piano
1. Henry Litolff: Scherzo from Concerto symphonique No. 4 7:36
Yuja Wang, piano
Which is available on the usual streaming sites.
The reason I returned my L52 even though I got it for a deal in 2022
is that while I liked that 100 Hz boost as well, and the wide dispersion was great, all I could hear on that track was the piano as opposed to the whole orchestra. That is, the L52 boosted the perceived volume of the piano relative to everything else. With reference headphones, and my other preferred speakers, I found the piano clear but in balance with the perceived volume of the rest of the symphony. This forward nature was too jarring for me.
You don’t have to be a classical fan to appreciate the track. I am curious to get your thoughts on how it sounds with your two speakers.
I did keep and collect several Bose 901’s after listening to them, so the idea of “questioning everything” is one that I have experienced too
. I was able to sell several more expensive speakers as a result.I am curious if you can try
View attachment 355023
Masterpieces in Miniature
San Francisco Symphony
Michael Tilson Thomas, conductor
Yuja Wang, piano
1. Henry Litolff: Scherzo from Concerto symphonique No. 4 7:36
Yuja Wang, piano
Which is available on the usual streaming sites.
The reason I returned my L52 even though I got it for a deal in 2022
View attachment 355024
is that while I liked that 100 Hz boost as well, and the wide dispersion was great, all I could hear on that track was the piano as opposed to the whole orchestra. That is, the L52 boosted the perceived volume of the piano relative to everything else. With reference headphones, and my other preferred speakers, I found the piano clear but in balance with the perceived volume of the rest of the symphony. This forward nature was too jarring for me.
You don’t have to be a classical fan to appreciate the track. I am curious to get your thoughts on how it sounds with your two speakers.
I did keep and collect several Bose 901’s after listening to them, so the idea of “questioning everything” is one that I have experienced too
Luckily I am a classical fan . I listen to (almost) anything and I'm a handful of years into piano lessons, so I'll definitely give it a go when I get home. FWIW, I did listen to the recent Yuja Wang recording of the Rach concertos (well, just the last movement of rach 3) and I felt like everything sounded correct. My problem is usually the opposite though: not being able to hear the piano over the orchestra. The L52s are boosted in the 1-2khz range though, so not surprised the piano sounded forward to you.
I remember you mentioning that you returned the L52s. On the other hand I know @ROOSKIE really liked them. Once again, I think this experience is really driving home the idea that what good measurements promise us more than anything is consistency of enjoyment throughout different listening spaces, users, and music types. I listen to a fair bit of live music, often unamplified, and to me, the best speakers don't really sound mind boggling amazing. They just minimize distractions that take you out of the experience.
Part of me does wish I'd just gone with a speaker I already knew I loved, the L82, as from the data it's clearly the most textbook-measuring speaker out of JBL's classic series and the easiest to EQ. The treble knob on its own addresses the biggest flaw, which is a slight treble lift. But aside from the lower price, part of the reason I was curious about the L52s is that they use a smaller 3/4" tweeter (as opposed to 1" on the bigger siblings), which I thought would lead to larger soundstage. Not sure the data shows it's larger than the L82, but it's certainly not a small image.
On the topic of music for testing speakers, and for those of you who appreciate video game music, I'm a little obsessed with this jazz arrangement of the music from Super Mario World:
Some other stuff I listened to yesterday in nor particular order, to give you an idea of a typical listening session (although I tend to listen to entire albums more when I'm not testing speakers.)
- 16 carriages, beyonce
- When doves cry, prince
- Let you break my heart again, Laufey
- Savior , St. Vincent
- I got the... Labi Siffre
- Fast car, tracy chapman
- Elgar Cello Concerto, Alisa Weilersstein
- Sir Duke, Stevie Wonder
- A whole bunch of Earth Wind and Fire
- Voodoo Child, Jimi Hendrix
- Separate Ways, Journey
- Centerfold, J Giels Band
- Don't Curse, Heavy D
- Mack the Knife, Ella Fitzgerald
- Opening to Othello, Verdi (James Levine Recording)
- One Flight Done, Norah Jones
- Under Pressure, Queen/Bowie
- Madness, Muse
- Alright, Kendrick Lamar
- Sunday in the Park with George, Sondheim
- Come Down, Anderson Paak
The most common note was again that the bass was more enjoyable with the JBLs and the revels were more consistently transparent but laid back with vocals. I got the impression of slightly sharper attack with the JBLs throughout it all, as well as a little more air. The sharpness was more noticeable with the grilles off. But these were relatively small differences overall.
I almost hate that it's such a cliche, but the JBL does sound a hair little more engaging and energetic. But to be clear I don't think they're "rock" only speakers or "vintage" sounding. Just tuned a bit more forward than the revels while being neutralish overall. Going back to the Def Techs was a much more of a dramatic switch, even though those aren't even that far off from neutral.
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Presumably the L82's and L52's are very similar in that respect? Are you not a fan of three-ways?
Presumably the L82's and L52's are very similar in that respect? Are you not a fan of three-ways?
They're actually not exactly similar in that respect. I think the L82 was a little brighter at the top end (mind you, it's been years) but overall a more neutral speaker.
Here are my measurements for the L82:
Harman's spin is even smoother in the ER/PIR/SP.
So other than room-dependent and subjective bass, the only real tonal coloration on the L82 for me was the slight elevation of the treble and the tweeter resonance off axis.
By contrast the L100 Classic (MKI, at least) seems to be the jankiest of them all. That said I still enjoyed them a lot but to my recollection they were definitely the least neutral. I was most impressed with their spatial presentation -- and looking at the DI curves they just have an unusually wide overall directivity.
Not sure what you mean with your question about three ways?
it was simply an observation that your preferred speakers seem to be 2-way (as in drivers) rather than 3-way types. However meandering off topic, so apologies..
Oh! No worries. A more precise observation would be that I like bookshelf speakers , and there are just few 3 way bookshelves, especially with wide directivity. The Philharmonic BMR is one of the few models that meat that criteria and I'm sad I haven't been able to check them out yet
I spent some more time listening and working on positioning the last couple of days, in particular testing these with the tweeters on the outside vs the inside. My feelings are largely the same as before, so I've decided to sell the M126Be's, but I've noticed a few interesting things.
The first is sensitivity to positioning. The L52's are not the most picky speakers I've used, but the M126Be are definitely more stable. Other than a slight change in the "air" and mild effect on the soundstage, the Revels pretty much sounds the same no matter how I angle them vertically or horizontally, grill on or off.
With the L52, using the tweeters on the outside, I occasionally had the annoying feeling the center image was ever so slightly shifted, something that I've never experienced before. However, adjusting the placement slightly fixed it, and it never happened with the tweeters on the inside. I believe this is possibly due to the asymmetrical directivity exacerbating effect of highly asymmetrical sidewall distance in my space.
Most interesting with the L52's interesting was the change from having the tweeters on the outside vs on the inside. It's really almost like having two different speakers, even when I moved the speakers to adjust for tweeter position. I can't deny the possibility of placebo, but we know from erin's measurements the speaker has significantly different responses on either side of the tweeter, so it's not unreasonable.
I've talked about this before with regards to the L82, but I believe when speakers have mirrored driver arrangements, the directivity toward the side closest to the sidewalls has a dominant effect on the perception of upper frequences and spatial presentation.
To my ears, the L52 quite clearly has a larger, more diffuse soundstage with the tweeters on the outside. When the tweeters are on the inside, even when adjusting for tweeter-to-tweeter distance, everything snaps together more tightly, and it actually sounds a bit more KEF/genelec like. A bit closer to the sound to the revel overall.
Overall, my preferred listening setup is grilles on, tweeters on the outside, and speakers pointing straight forward (about 20 degrees off axis from my listening position). It sounds most neutral and has the most exciting soundstage this way. I wouldn't be surprised if this is how JBL optimized the speaker too.
Ultimately, my main reason for the selling the M126Be even if they are a bit better is that I often upmix these days, and with upmixing, even using a center spread, the differences are utterly imperceptible. So, as good of a deal as I got with the Revels, I'd rather go with the prettier and cheaper speaker if the differences in sound quality aren't always obvious.
The first is sensitivity to positioning. The L52's are not the most picky speakers I've used, but the M126Be are definitely more stable. Other than a slight change in the "air" and mild effect on the soundstage, the Revels pretty much sounds the same no matter how I angle them vertically or horizontally, grill on or off.
With the L52, using the tweeters on the outside, I occasionally had the annoying feeling the center image was ever so slightly shifted, something that I've never experienced before. However, adjusting the placement slightly fixed it, and it never happened with the tweeters on the inside. I believe this is possibly due to the asymmetrical directivity exacerbating effect of highly asymmetrical sidewall distance in my space.
Most interesting with the L52's interesting was the change from having the tweeters on the outside vs on the inside. It's really almost like having two different speakers, even when I moved the speakers to adjust for tweeter position. I can't deny the possibility of placebo, but we know from erin's measurements the speaker has significantly different responses on either side of the tweeter, so it's not unreasonable.
I've talked about this before with regards to the L82, but I believe when speakers have mirrored driver arrangements, the directivity toward the side closest to the sidewalls has a dominant effect on the perception of upper frequences and spatial presentation.
To my ears, the L52 quite clearly has a larger, more diffuse soundstage with the tweeters on the outside. When the tweeters are on the inside, even when adjusting for tweeter-to-tweeter distance, everything snaps together more tightly, and it actually sounds a bit more KEF/genelec like. A bit closer to the sound to the revel overall.
Overall, my preferred listening setup is grilles on, tweeters on the outside, and speakers pointing straight forward (about 20 degrees off axis from my listening position). It sounds most neutral and has the most exciting soundstage this way. I wouldn't be surprised if this is how JBL optimized the speaker too.
Ultimately, my main reason for the selling the M126Be even if they are a bit better is that I often upmix these days, and with upmixing, even using a center spread, the differences are utterly imperceptible. So, as good of a deal as I got with the Revels, I'd rather go with the prettier and cheaper speaker if the differences in sound quality aren't always obvious.
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I know I'm kind of just talking to myself now and justifying my impressions/decision to sell the revels, but as some of you know, I do enjoy direct data comparisons between speakers. Now that I've spent enough time listening, I wanted to revisit Erin's data for these two speakers and see how they lined up with what I heard. L52in Blue, Revel in Red.
The first is showing just how much more bass the L52 has. The revel's extra extension is less than I'd assumed.
That said, the Revel has a rear port, so the extra bass extension is a bit more apparent in the PIR. You get about 2dB more below 60Hz.
I think the above two graphs drive home that these two are really not dramatically different in tonality other than the bass, and show that Harman's non-studio speakers are generally optimized for the PIR first.
One thing I I do different from Erin and Amir is that I prefer to look at individual off axis angles and the sidewall/total horizontal early reflections curve rather than contour plots/polar maps to get a sense of soundstage performance. In the past I've used Horizontal ERDI as a cumultive measurement, but more recently I've gravitated toward the sidewalls specifically.
In this graph I've plotted the listening window against the average sidewall reflections from 40-80 degrees (the "sidewall bounce" component of the early reflection curve), as well as a "sidewall DI" curve, which as you'd expect is a directivity curve only for sidewall reflections.
I don't have the full data, but we see roughly similar width regarding overall sidewall reflections. That said, the revel's curve is definitily smoother. I did expect a the L52 to come off a little wider overall, but it depends on the frequency range. The revel is a little wider from 2-4 kHz, but the L52 is slightly wider above that.
That said, as mentioned earlier, I've anecdotally found that with asymmetrical tweeters, the directivity on the side closest to the sidewall seems to have a slightly dominant perceptual effect for higher frequencies, above 2kHz or so, while below that the two sides seem to add up a bit more evenly. As I don't have the full spinorama angles, I can't assess how the different sides perform in this regard.Still, there isn't enough here for me to confidently say the L52 have the wider soundstage. Might be room dependent as it varies with frequency.
Sidenote: to illustrate how much wider Revel's speakers are compared to typical "deep waveguide" speakers, here's a comparison of that "Sidewall DI" curve for the Revel(red) against the Genelec 8341A (purple):
You can see that from 2khz to 8khz -- pretty much the most important region regarding soundstage, the Revels have average sidewall reflections that are on average roughly 2-3dB louder, even if they are not quite as smooth.
By the way, more evidence the L82 are the best of the Classics... cumulative sidewall DI is actually a bit smoother than the revels where it matters despite teh asymetrical directivity;
Edit: By "smooth" I mean "approaching a straight line" as opposed to the little bumps that are inconsequential.
The first is showing just how much more bass the L52 has. The revel's extra extension is less than I'd assumed.
That said, the Revel has a rear port, so the extra bass extension is a bit more apparent in the PIR. You get about 2dB more below 60Hz.
I think the above two graphs drive home that these two are really not dramatically different in tonality other than the bass, and show that Harman's non-studio speakers are generally optimized for the PIR first.
One thing I I do different from Erin and Amir is that I prefer to look at individual off axis angles and the sidewall/total horizontal early reflections curve rather than contour plots/polar maps to get a sense of soundstage performance. In the past I've used Horizontal ERDI as a cumultive measurement, but more recently I've gravitated toward the sidewalls specifically.
In this graph I've plotted the listening window against the average sidewall reflections from 40-80 degrees (the "sidewall bounce" component of the early reflection curve), as well as a "sidewall DI" curve, which as you'd expect is a directivity curve only for sidewall reflections.
I don't have the full data, but we see roughly similar width regarding overall sidewall reflections. That said, the revel's curve is definitily smoother. I did expect a the L52 to come off a little wider overall, but it depends on the frequency range. The revel is a little wider from 2-4 kHz, but the L52 is slightly wider above that.
That said, as mentioned earlier, I've anecdotally found that with asymmetrical tweeters, the directivity on the side closest to the sidewall seems to have a slightly dominant perceptual effect for higher frequencies, above 2kHz or so, while below that the two sides seem to add up a bit more evenly. As I don't have the full spinorama angles, I can't assess how the different sides perform in this regard.Still, there isn't enough here for me to confidently say the L52 have the wider soundstage. Might be room dependent as it varies with frequency.
Sidenote: to illustrate how much wider Revel's speakers are compared to typical "deep waveguide" speakers, here's a comparison of that "Sidewall DI" curve for the Revel(red) against the Genelec 8341A (purple):
You can see that from 2khz to 8khz -- pretty much the most important region regarding soundstage, the Revels have average sidewall reflections that are on average roughly 2-3dB louder, even if they are not quite as smooth.
By the way, more evidence the L82 are the best of the Classics... cumulative sidewall DI is actually a bit smoother than the revels where it matters despite teh asymetrical directivity;
Edit: By "smooth" I mean "approaching a straight line" as opposed to the little bumps that are inconsequential.
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l0f3y3
Member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2021
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I got a pair of these two years ago. Over time, I kept coming back to these speakers over and over again. (Other speakers, Warfedale 80th, Triangle Bro-3, Kef 150, SOund Artist 6.5b) Each time I did, they stayed in my study rig longer. My study is a small 10x10x8 room. I have wall treatment and a small sofa and chair. The pair are tweeters outside, about 4.5' feet apart 2', no toe in, from wall and I sit about 7' away. I use a balanced SMSL HO200 pre and DO200 Mrk II stack into Schiit Galljhorns mono blocks. Basically this winter, the JBLs have not left my study except to try them out in my home theater (which has a 2.0 channel system adjacent the home theater 7.2.1 system shares the fronts with my 2.0 system) I really find these speakers are the best of my speaker collection. I have not grown tired of them on this last audition period (since last Oct.)
I am older and retired struggling musician. My study was a electronic music production studio for many years....
I find the L52s have superior sound stage and a liveliness across different sources. I am looking to purchase a second pair for the living room theater. I got mine on sale and are definitely worth the 750 I paid for them. I listen to jazz, electronic, chill, classical...vinyl and streaming. I think the speakers have a break in period not only for the speaker itself but for the listener. We all have expectations, and after a while, comparing them to other speakers, my preference changed. The L52's won over my other speakers for the accuracy and sound stage....when I listen to other speakers I long to hear the JBLs again and it makes me sad. Frankly I think it took me a while to get use to hearing so much more of the music.
I am older and retired struggling musician. My study was a electronic music production studio for many years....
I find the L52s have superior sound stage and a liveliness across different sources. I am looking to purchase a second pair for the living room theater. I got mine on sale and are definitely worth the 750 I paid for them. I listen to jazz, electronic, chill, classical...vinyl and streaming. I think the speakers have a break in period not only for the speaker itself but for the listener. We all have expectations, and after a while, comparing them to other speakers, my preference changed. The L52's won over my other speakers for the accuracy and sound stage....when I listen to other speakers I long to hear the JBLs again and it makes me sad. Frankly I think it took me a while to get use to hearing so much more of the music.
Napi, have you seen the JBL 4305p irl? If you did, how does the L52 veneers finish compare? I saw the 4305p in a shop once and was very impressed with its wood veneer finish.
Although I had no intention of measuring these speakers, I realized I had a rare opportunity to try to match NFS measurements using the same exact test unit.
Spent a few minutes on a very janky setup in my building's basement. This is the lowest-resolution and least careful quasi-anechoic measurements I've done, as I did it indoors with just 8 foot ceilings, plenty of junk in the room, and a 5ms gate. I'm only about 2.5 feet away from the speaker, although i didn't measure; it's all kind of eyeballed.
Mine in blue,Erin's in red:
Erin and Amir use a squatter scaling than I do:
My brief takeaway is that my measurements miss out on some of the narrower peaks, but I'm surprised at how well the bass lined up.
If I have time, I'll try to do a full spin at some point.
BTW, here's the range of the tweeter knob at the "Noon", "0", and "Max" Position (Note: this measurement wasn't at the same axis as the above):
Spent a few minutes on a very janky setup in my building's basement. This is the lowest-resolution and least careful quasi-anechoic measurements I've done, as I did it indoors with just 8 foot ceilings, plenty of junk in the room, and a 5ms gate. I'm only about 2.5 feet away from the speaker, although i didn't measure; it's all kind of eyeballed.
Mine in blue,Erin's in red:
Erin and Amir use a squatter scaling than I do:
My brief takeaway is that my measurements miss out on some of the narrower peaks, but I'm surprised at how well the bass lined up.
If I have time, I'll try to do a full spin at some point.
BTW, here's the range of the tweeter knob at the "Noon", "0", and "Max" Position (Note: this measurement wasn't at the same axis as the above):
Not the 4305P's, but maybe the 4309 I've used is similar?. But I do think the L52's have a very nice veneer with a realistic texture.
Glad you're enjoying them! I do think these are a good deal at the common open box price of $750.
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Napilopez, I really need to try your tutorial for quasi anechoic measurements! I so much appreciated your contribution to the community. Just out of curiosity, how much time does it take from start to finish? From setting up the speaker to getting a final measurement?
Thank you! It depends, of course, on if you're doing the full spin or just a single quasi anechoic measurement. For the full thing I'd say it takes 1.5-2 hours overall, but significantly more if it's your first time.
Honestly, the most difficult and time-consuming part is usually the setup and cleanup, complicated by living in an apartment. In my old apartment this was a lot easier, as I had an open studio apartment with 15 foot ceilings. Now I'm in a railroad style apartment with short ceilings, so I tend to measure in my neighbor's back yard. The L52 ones were done in my building's basement.
The setup usually involves carrying and arranging
- The speaker(s)
- The speaker stand
- The turntable for off-axis measurements
- A cam strap for securing the speaker during vertical measurements
- A table to raise the speaker further off the ground
- A portable power source or long extension cable.
- An amp
- A DAC (sometimes, I just use my laptop's headphone out these days)
- My laptop
- The micophone
- The microphone stand
- Cables
- Measuring tape
If you are able to create a permanent or semi-permanent setup, this can go way faster. That's why I tried to measure multiple speakers at once when possible. After setting up, actually capturing the full spinorama measurements can be done in less than 15 minutes. Once I've captured the data and cleaned up, processing the data is another 15 minutes or so.
I looked it up and it seems like the 4305 and 4309 share the same finish. Well the L52 and L82 are now on my list of considerations the next time I go shopping for speakers.
Definitely save up for the L82 if you can. I'm really enjoying my L52s but I still think about the L82s! I don't know if they've made any meaningful improvements to the MK2 version. I would just try to find the L82 open box
robertospeed
Active Member
I'm Italian, sorry for my English, I use the translator.
I also have the JBL L52 Classic black edition and I play them with a Yamaha A-S701, I like the tone, but I don't know if the amplifier can drive them well because I'm not an expert, but I noticed that the JBL woofer it moves too much, but is this normal ?
I also have the Wharfedale Denton 85th and I like the sound better and I can also give much more volume than the JBL and the woofer doesn't move as much.
This is my video of both speakers:
I also have the JBL L52 Classic black edition and I play them with a Yamaha A-S701, I like the tone, but I don't know if the amplifier can drive them well because I'm not an expert, but I noticed that the JBL woofer it moves too much, but is this normal ?
I also have the Wharfedale Denton 85th and I like the sound better and I can also give much more volume than the JBL and the woofer doesn't move as much.
This is my video of both speakers:
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