Is there really no audible difference between different DACs?

[solderdude]

its really just a question about definition

Its actually all about really wanting to know something or not really caring and what one wants to change in order to get a better (or different) sound.

 

[solderdude]

I use this unit (below) for level matched A-B tests. Even for DAC tests. Sometimes there is a difference, sometimes not. Usually not, but ther are exceptions. Depends on music sample and rest of the audio chain as well.View attachment 40630

Oh my God... you have got to be kidding me.. how can an OPA2134 ever 'conduct' the special sound from vinyl and tubes.
Opamps block the 'magic' ... you ought to know that by now .
NO opamp ever sounds good. It MUST be discrete !
And are those dual gang potmeters ? ... not stepped goldplated silverlined rhodium contacts with special 0.001% tolerance, induction and capacitance free HD-moviefilm resistors ... blasphemy !
That opamp will impart it's horrid sound signatureon the supplied signal and that is the reason why everything sounds the same when AB testing this way.

 

[Veri]

solderdude you scar(e) me

 

[solderdude]

Hot solder-splatters flyinging all around scar(e) this dude almost daily. Now its your time to be scared !

 

[WreckTangle]

Hot solder-splatters flyinging all around scar(e) this dude almost daily.

I have never told anyone here that they are wrong

i asked why make measurements on dacs if they are audibly transparent you responded to this question as if i had personally attacked you and made assumptions along the way about my intentions

Now you keep calling me childish but i am not the one here thats calling other people names

Do you really consider it mature to hurl insults at complete strangers? do you really consider it mature to just call someone a child whenever you fail to understand what it is they are saying? i have tried to explain to you twice now you have decided not to want to understand it and rather continue as to belittle me that is not how an adult acts

 

[WreckTangle]

Oh and if you had read my post you would have seen that those are not my measurements

 

[pma]

And are those dual gang potmeters ? ... not stepped goldplated silverlined rhodium contacts with special 0.001% tolerance,

To horrify you even more ....

 

[solderdude]

Oh no... IC sockets .... don't tell me you are swapping opamps as well ? the horror !

(Nice build !)

 

[solderdude]

do you really consider it mature to just call someone a child

The road to maturity is a long one, especially for men like me.

 

[WreckTangle]

The road to maturity is a long one, especially for men like me.

I have reported you

This is abuse

 

[solderdude]

Thanks !

Now the sheriff can spank me and order me to put pants on my head ... he does say that ... really he does.
I didn'teven use memes this time
But you are right ... I do need to grow up.. my wife keeps telling me the same ... from the kitchen no less.

and its not abuse ... I am being immature (my wife tells me as well b.t.w.)... a bit childish if you will but am not stamping my feet.

When you stop posting I will as well ... till the next troll comes around.

 

[Willem]

To come back to the question about the sonic transparency of DACs and why we still bother. The answer is that many DACs are now sonically completely transparent, as shown both in double blind level matched listening tests and in measurements where their performance is well above documented levels of human hearing acuity. And the good news is that this level of quality is now achieved even by quite cheap gear. That is really good news. The bad news is that this target is not met by all gear. There is still quite mediocre gear on the market (see e.g. the DAC components in many AV receivers), and that is not only horribly cheap Chinese junk. On the contrary, precisely some ultra expensive audiophile stuff does not make the grade, with the Total DAC as the perhaps most awful example that was discussed here. So it still makes sense to do these measurements, even if it is now quite easy and affordable to design and produce a DAC that is sonically perfect. There should no longer be any crap on the market, but there still is.

 

[WreckTangle]

To come back to the question about the sonic transparency of DACs and why we still bother. The answer is that many DACs are now sonically completely transparent, as shown both in double blind level matched listening tests and in measurements where their performance is well above documented levels of human hearing acuity. And the good news is that this level of quality is now achieved even by quite cheap gear. That is really good news. The bad news is that this target is not met by all gear. There is still quite mediocre gear on the market (see e.g. the DAC components in many AV receivers), and that is not only horribly cheap Chinese junk. On the contrary, precisely some ultra expensive audiophile stuff does not make the grade, with the Total DAC as the perhaps most awful example that was discussed here. So it still makes sense to do these measurements, even if it is now quite easy and affordable to design and produce a DAC that is sonically perfect. There should no longer be any crap on the market, but there still is.

Im glad someone actually tries to answer my question without being abusive! thank you Willem

At what point is a dac transparent though is there are sure way to know like a number?

 

[WreckTangle]

Thanks !

Now the sheriff can spank me and order me to put pants on my head ... he does say that ... really he does.
I didn'teven use memes this time
But you are right ... I do need to grow up.. my wife keeps telling me the same ... from the kitchen no less.

and its not abuse ... I am being immature (my wife tells me as well b.t.w.)... a bit childish if you will but am not stamping my feet.

When you stop posting I will as well ... till the next troll comes around.

Im not going to entertain you anymore solderdude your obviously not interested in a civil conversation consider urself ignored

 

[solderdude]

I am... mostly... that is.
Regulars will know I am totally out of character.

My apologies ... I would take it all back.... if I were forced to.

 

[Willem]

It is a bit out of character indeed.

 

[WreckTangle]

I have asked amirm to check out the thread

 

[Thomas savage]

@CelticForest and @WreckTangle are one and the same person , it's a guy who signs up to the forum ( and many others ) under multiple different names .

Both now banned .

can you please stop being so pathetic and go elsewhere mate! Have you nothing else in your life!

 

[Willem]

There is a document somewhere on the thresholds of sonic perfection, but I don't have time to look for it now. But be assured, many DACs are much better than that. Amplifiers can be, but not all of them are. Speakers never are, and the same applies to anything vinyl.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Common salesman trick in audio shops is to boost the volume of the amp they want to sell you by 0.5-1dB or so. You don't perceive that as a loudness difference, but rather as the slightly louder one being "clearer, more open, bigger soundstage."

As well as a common manufacturer trick: Design integrated amps with a very sensitive preamp (often reaching max power at 12'), making people believe it is more powerful. In 90% of ymthe case, louder does seem better.