LUMIN U2 mini vs Bluesound Node 130 --- Differences ? nop

[Maurizio_Maggi]

hi!

I´m neu here...
Maurizio from Munich.

long story short, given LUMIN U2's countless declarations of superiority, I wanted to understand too.
I tried to understand the difference between Bluesound Node and Lumin U2 mini.... but could not.

I have a very simple system. I have two Mcintosh mc 275 that I use as power amps and a T+A dac 200 that I use as pre and DAC.
I have a Bluesound Node 130 and yesterday I picked up a Lumin U2 Mini on loan from a shop for testing.

Was convinced that I was experiencing a difference, because through Roon I was using my Mac to upsample from PCM to DSD and I seemed to find differences.
well I thought if I find a streamer that upsams directly, any music file will sound better even without Roon.

Today I had Lumin upsampled from PCM to DSD 256 and I connected the Lumin via USB and the buesound via Toslink.
I did cross-tests using the same music and simply switching between one and the other. boh I don´t know what to say.... they sound the same to me.

In my opinion, IF the difference in sound has to be researched so carefully, squeezing and concentrating (I'll try again today) is not worth the 2000 euro difference.
it can be me... and in that case I'm glad I don't have golden ears that require certain equipment, I wouldn't appreciate it anyway...

or is it my system, which already has a sound with a 'Black' background (the two Mc275s sound very good)...

or if they are bitperfect devices... bits are bits and the DAC does the rest.

The thing that I don't understand and that made me try the Lumin was that using Roon, I seemed to perceive using my Mac connected to the Dac and doing Úpsampling, at DSD 256 an audible difference.
That I didn't perceive this time.

but the strangest thing is that upsampling with the Lumin internally, the sound is not different from a high quality PCM, and this should not be, as the internal circuits of the dac that handle the digital conversion are different.


Does anyone want to add something or tell me where I am wrong?

Thanks!
Maurizio

 

[JustJones]

if they are bitperfect devices... bits are bits and the DAC does the rest.

This.
I've never been able to hear differences between devices ( from raspberry pi4 to thousand(s) dollar streamers ), that simply pass the digital stream to the DAC which is all they're doing.
There may be features you prefer on different streamers.

 

[ivayvr]

I doubt that there is any benefit of up sampling in general, so in your scenario we are talking about the difference between your T+A 200 DAC and Lumin's U2 DAC. I am not familiar with either of the two and I am aware of relatively poor measurement of the N 130 DAC. I am using N130 on it's own and I have no complaints.
If you are unable to hear the difference, your best bet is saving EUR 2K or investing the difference in better speakers (if you need to).

 

[Maurizio_Maggi]

I doubt that there is any benefit of up sampling in general, so in your scenario we are talking about the difference between your T+A 200 DAC and Lumin's U2 DAC. I am not familiar with either of the two and I am aware of relatively poor measurement of the N 130 DAC. I am using N130 on it's own and I have no complaints.
If you are unable to hear the difference, your best bet is saving EUR 2K or investing the difference in better speakers (if you need to).

Actually, Lumin as well as Bluesound are just streamers.
The Dac is the T+A 200
my loudspeakers are Tannoy Cheviot
and MC275 Amplifiers

cheers.
Maurizio

 

[Monty67]

In my opinion, IF the difference in sound has to be researched so carefully, squeezing and concentrating

Yeah ive done that before. I would concentrate so hard and at the end the only thing that i achieved was a headache.....lifes is too short to be giving yourself nosebleeds over this

 

[VintageFlanker]

Does anyone want to add something or tell me where I am wrong?

Yep. I'm adding that you simply aren't wrong. None audible difference between (good) streamers has to be expected in the digital domain. At all. Period. Whatever the streamers would cost 100, 1000, 10 000, or one million €.

or if they are bitperfect devices... bits are bits and the DAC does the rest.

The end.

 

[fatoldgit]

Its not about whether there is a difference in the sound ...its that the more expensive devices allow people to feel superior to others....same with expensive cars*** , expensive handbags, expensive watches, expensive mobile phones and other consumer purchases.

Why own a RPI as a streamer when you can own a $30,000 one.

So rest easy knowing that like the rest of us [objective] plebs, you have saved yourself a bucket load of money and in fact that means you are the superior one cause you werent duped by the marketing brochure.

Peter

*** just came back to say that if someone is a genuine car enthusiast that goes racing, does track days etc then of course they can realize the true potential of a lambo, porsche 911 gt3 etc. But thats a small % of those who own these types of cars...the rest are boulevard cruisers or garage queens.

A true boating enthusiast doesnt own a superyacht etc etc.

The point of a hobby (I think) is that there is some "sweat equity" involved else all you are is a dis-interested person with money

 

[VintageFlanker]

same with expensive cars , expensive handbags, expensive watches, expensive mobile phones

Nope. All these are factually very different things each others (not necessarily better or worse, but just not the same). Streamer digital outputs aren't.

 

[fatoldgit]

Nope. All these are factually very different things each others (not necessarily better or worse, but just not the same). Streamer digital outputs aren't.

You missed my point.

People who buy a Taiko Extreme server arent interested in whether its a technically superior digital playback device (i.e. they have the critical reasoning to think through the claims of why you need 16 CPU's, ECC memory etc to playback music ), they buy it cause its expensive.

$3000 network routers... again no critical reasoning involved in its purchase to understand it wont make a difference... just that it comes in a shiney box and is expensive.

I can show you 100's of photo's of high end systems in glass/granite lined rooms with no consideration for room acoustics... its all for show.

I have, for bizzare reasons, collected images of these over the years... and present just three of many I have

Peter

 

[FrantzM]

hi!

I´m neu here...
Maurizio from Munich.

long story short, given LUMIN U2's countless declarations of superiority, I wanted to understand too.
I tried to understand the difference between Bluesound Node and Lumin U2 mini.... but could not.

I have a very simple system. I have two Mcintosh mc 275 that I use as power amps and a T+A dac 200 that I use as pre and DAC.
I have a Bluesound Node 130 and yesterday I picked up a Lumin U2 Mini on loan from a shop for testing.

Was convinced that I was experiencing a difference, because through Roon I was using my Mac to upsample from PCM to DSD and I seemed to find differences.
well I thought if I find a streamer that upsams directly, any music file will sound better even without Roon.

Today I had Lumin upsampled from PCM to DSD 256 and I connected the Lumin via USB and the buesound via Toslink.
I did cross-tests using the same music and simply switching between one and the other. boh I don´t know what to say.... they sound the same to me.

In my opinion, IF the difference in sound has to be researched so carefully, squeezing and concentrating (I'll try again today) is not worth the 2000 euro difference.
it can be me... and in that case I'm glad I don't have golden ears that require certain equipment, I wouldn't appreciate it anyway...

or is it my system, which already has a sound with a 'Black' background (the two Mc275s sound very good)...

or if they are bitperfect devices... bits are bits and the DAC does the rest.

The thing that I don't understand and that made me try the Lumin was that using Roon, I seemed to perceive using my Mac connected to the Dac and doing Úpsampling, at DSD 256 an audible difference.
That I didn't perceive this time.

but the strangest thing is that upsampling with the Lumin internally, the sound is not different from a high quality PCM, and this should not be, as the internal circuits of the dac that handle the digital conversion are different.


Does anyone want to add something or tell me where I am wrong?

Thanks!
Maurizio

Welcome to ASR. Please stay and learn, you will enjoy music like you have never , before. Seriously.
Perceivable differences in electronics (amps, preamps, DAC) are from small to non-existent, once level is matched and the Devices Under Test (DUT for short) are not known to the subject.
You did conduct your tests knowing which is which, yet reached the same conclusions. The (provable) reality is that there are NO perceivable differences in DAC beyond a certain threshold. There used to be a DAC chart on ASR, don't know if it is currently maintained but any DAC that is not in the RED is is virtually transparent.. and as you can see that includes the Apple dongle, yes, the one costing $7.95; this is sobering: It will sound the same as your Lumin or any (non-broken) other DAC

Stay here, Learn. Your audiophile worldview should change for the better.
If you have an iPhone conduct this experience. Purchase the Apple headphones dongle, the one with either Lighting or USB on one side and minijack on the other. Buy also a miniJack to RCA converter, connect the RCA output to your preamp... This will sound as good as your Lumin if you take the time to match the level with, again with your Apple phone using an App... (There is one called decibel I believe)...

That is what ASR is about: Objective performance Provable, repeatable facts. Objective metrics, not guru's opinion.

I hope you stay.

Best.

Peace.