-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Is my system effectively transparent?
- Thread starter DearSX
- Start date
HarmonicTHD
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2022
- Messages
- 3,326
- Likes
- 4,836
Goldensounds likes „everything“ (expensive). It’s an informercial. There is no evidence whatsoever why it would sound better. Follow the advice already given by the previous posters. Focus on speakers and RoomEQ.
- Thread Starter
- #23
Thanks everyone!
Yeah I'm going to focus more and more on speakers, EQ and placement. I am probably going to look at speakers that would work in my room with minimal EQ. A friend may even be able to help me design some specially for my room.
yeah, hopefully its very little the affects on the load of the speakers. Most all my speakers are 4ohm.
Yeah I'm going to focus more and more on speakers, EQ and placement. I am probably going to look at speakers that would work in my room with minimal EQ. A friend may even be able to help me design some specially for my room.
yeah, hopefully its very little the affects on the load of the speakers. Most all my speakers are 4ohm.
- Thread Starter
- #24
The Wim Pro and Denafrips DAC, also I have the Hifiman XS headphones. I would be fine with getting rid of the Pre-amp if I don't need it. I could just get a DAC with a "transparent" preamp and get a desktop headphone amp for my headphones.
To me it doesn’t sound like a preamp is of any value. Perhaps spend on a DAC with EQ and a excellent headphone amp. I can recommend the RME ADI v2.
Last edited:
- Thread Starter
- #26
Thanks, I'm going to research that DAC today. So I can just go straight to one of my amps with the RME ADI v2 and use it to control the volume while maintaining a great SINAD?
Yes far better than most. The RME has been tested here.
- Thread Starter
- #28
Nice!
Would this DAC offer similar performance as a pre-amp, minus the EQ?
Loxjie D40 Pro DAC & HP:
Loxjie D40 Pro DAC & HP Amp Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Loxjie D40 Pro balanced stereo DAC and headphone amplifier. It was sent to me by the company. It normally costs US $430 but is on sale for $388. The enclosure is metal but the silver look makes you think it is made out of plastic. The 7 segment...
audiosciencereview.com
Last edited:
- Thread Starter
- #29
Would not bother with anything from Denafrips if you have other options. Some measurements:
Denafrips Pontus 2 (12th Anniversary Edition) Measurements - GoldenSound
Measurements of the Denafrips Pontus 2 12th Anniversary R2R DAC, and testing to see whether claims of NOS capability are true.goldensound.audio
Denafrips Ares 2 Measurements and Review - GoldenSound
Review and Measurements of the Ares 2. This DAC is not actually a NOS dac, but it's still one of the best options under $1000 and sounds wonderful.
Denafrips Terminator Plus (With Gaia) Measurements - GoldenSound
The Terminator plus is a high performing R2R dac and the flagship dac in Denafrips' product range. Now that I have a unit in-house I wanted to get a full set of measurements completed.
As you can see Denafrips is not flat out "bad" but their units leave much to be desired in terms of modern measurement performance and little "bugs"/inconsistencies with their units. I would not get an R2R dac in 2023, most of it is advertising gimmick. Any modern Chinese dac at a fraction of the price will get you 116-120 dB SINAD easily and probably better all-around performance. I don't even think most of the Denafrips products come with a remote control. The main thing going for them is that they have a nice looking chassis.
If you don't need the preamp for other additional analogue inputs I would personally get one of the topping headphone amp/dac all in ones to replace two devices with one. If you don't care about additional analogue inputs and also don't use headphones then something like https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/inte...th-2x250w-4-ohm-32bit-768khz-dsd-p-17004.html is a nice all-in-one product (wireless linkplay streamer virtually identical to Wiim, Ncore amplifier which is similar spec to the Topping, transparent dac)
But to answer your question, yes, everything else is essentially "transparent".
That all in one unit is very very good for the money.
I only use 2 digital inputs, my TV and the streamer. the WiiM has a digital in (I use for TV) and Digital out (I use to the DAC) so I really just need one input. I am going to look into more 2 or 3 in one units. I know my wife would appreciate it!
Yes I voted it poor because I reckon there are a lot of real-world loads it won't be optimal into.
If I were the O/P first thing I'd be doing is getting a proper amplifier. Nothing else needs changing, and the speakers listed are all decent.
- Thread Starter
- #31
Thanks,
What would you choose and why?
I also have the Parasound A21 and older Adcom G555 which may be fine also.
You can get a better transparent DAC for 200.00 than the Denafrips. The Cost of the RME is the DSP and features. I also own a Topping D30 Pro which I use more often.Nice!
Would this DAC offer similar performance as a pre-amp, minus the EQ?
Loxjie D40 Pro DAC & HP:
Loxjie D40 Pro DAC & HP Amp Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Loxjie D40 Pro balanced stereo DAC and headphone amplifier. It was sent to me by the company. It normally costs US $430 but is on sale for $388. The enclosure is metal but the silver look makes you think it is made out of plastic. The 7 segment...
I would look just at the measurements only on that other site I posted. That guy doing them is a bit of a weirdo and has some strange "opinions", although the measurements themselves are valid enough to compare to ASRs.
If you already have the denafrips you don't really have to replace it based on our comments, it will perform fine. But if you don't have it already, I would look elsewhere. As someone mentioned for Denafrips money you could be buying an RME ADI-2 DAC, or simply saving a bunch and getting any competent dac as cheap as $100.
Some people like having an analogue preamp as "insurance" that a direct DAC-to-poweramp connection is not going to blow their speakers by outputting 0dBFS due to the volume resetting or something but it is not exactly necessary if you're careful. Reliable gear like the RME should hopefully not really have a problem with that.
As others have stated if your budget is constrained I'd also worry more about speakers/DSP before spending more on gear if you already have an alternative. An audio chain with a 70 or 80 dB SINAD that outputs to good/flat speakers and a controlled room will likely always sound better than a "fully transparent" 100dB chain that has problems at the transducer/room end. For most people, getting a second hand AV receiver for $100-300 bucks for example and using the rest of the budget/time on the speakers to fix that end of it make more sense. You can always upgrade those later/change devices, but that is mostly just for technical perfection or quality if life rather than changing a sound signature.
Sgt. Ear Ache
Major Contributor
There's value in knowing that the system is not doing anything you don't want it to do (in this case, that it's "transparent") up to the point where the signal reaches the speakers. Now, you focus on the speakers and the room knowing that any issues that arise are localized to those. There's no such thing as a fully transparent system once you introduce speakers and rooms. Up to the speakers, you can do it. But as soon as sound comes out of the speakers and starts bouncing around the room, you're trying to do the best you can. It will never be perfect.
- Thread Starter
- #35
Agreed
If you have not seen it already, the spinorama database (https://www.spinorama.org/scores.html) is good for looking at the performance of loudspeakers measured here and reliable measurements from elsewhere. Would suggest reading the brief help section and the cited material if you're keen on learning more if these things are new to you.
There are very competent calibrated mics even the $80 usb umik-1 from minidsp is a great option many people love here, there are guides on both here and youtube on how measure and do everything with REW/peq, which is enough to see what kinds of benefits you could get with your current speakers. Worth giving it a try with even just a PC as a source to test if it's not your regular source. The mic will always be useful to reuse if you rearrange the room, change speakers and so on. Definitely the best value/$ anyone can ever spend on a system if you are willing to take a little bit of time to learn and measure. Definitely a great way to also spend another <$100 bucks.
There are very competent calibrated mics even the $80 usb umik-1 from minidsp is a great option many people love here, there are guides on both here and youtube on how measure and do everything with REW/peq, which is enough to see what kinds of benefits you could get with your current speakers. Worth giving it a try with even just a PC as a source to test if it's not your regular source. The mic will always be useful to reuse if you rearrange the room, change speakers and so on. Definitely the best value/$ anyone can ever spend on a system if you are willing to take a little bit of time to learn and measure. Definitely a great way to also spend another <$100 bucks.
Don't worry about the electronics, the distortion inherent even for state of the art speakers is orders of magnitudes higher.
On top of that, the distortions from your room are orders of magnitude worse than the speakers. Take any pair of speakers, and use any measurement mic to check the decay times at your listening position, measured in cycles. It takes a lot of acoustic treatment to get consistent decay behaviour.
On top of that, the distortions from your room are orders of magnitude worse than the speakers. Take any pair of speakers, and use any measurement mic to check the decay times at your listening position, measured in cycles. It takes a lot of acoustic treatment to get consistent decay behaviour.
posvibes
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2020
- Messages
- 362
- Likes
- 490
I'd like to know why the OP's thought his system was not transparent in the first place?
Something triggered his dissatisfaction, if indeed it was dissatisfaction, but he obviously thinks lack of transparency is the culprit.
How does one come to that conclusion?
Something triggered his dissatisfaction, if indeed it was dissatisfaction, but he obviously thinks lack of transparency is the culprit.
How does one come to that conclusion?
- Thread Starter
- #40
How did I come to the conclusion that maybe my system is holding things back? In big part from all the BS about $10000 cables, DACs, Amps, etc making a difference online everywhere. Partly in hearing things sound "cleaner" or more understandable when I upgraded my Preamp to the Pre90, then the A70 Pro. Partly in the measures I'm seeing online for my components (20 year pre-amp, Schiit SYS, and Parasound equipment in general etc. Partly because things missing or not present in what I am hearing out of my system now.
What triggered the dissatisfaction is I can't replicate some of the great things I heard at some events, stores, and friends homes, in my car, even with the same speakers sometimes. Also how I listened to $50-200k systems (at stores, events) and was not impressed, but then listening to $5k systems and being smitten. I think many have answered that the issue is in a big way the speakers and room interaction.
Like I can listen to a pop song from the 80s in my car (using DIY PA Speakers Volt 6) and get that beat that just sounds right, fun, enjoyable, even the people outside the car are dancing. Then I literally move the same speakers into my house and they sound very different, hollow. Then I take those speakers to a meet up group and they sound amazing off a Blue-sound power Node with almost anything I play, and these speakers don't even measure that good. Its a confusing mess!
The room is playing a big roll I'm sure, but I am limited to my living room, so I got to work with what I got somehow.
Last edited:
Similar threads
