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Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

Audio-Technica AT33SA

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  • 2.0 g
  • 100 Ohm
  • I got it used but from a trusted seller. Declared approx. 100 hours in use.
  • Magnat MTT 990 -> Musical Fidelity MX-VYNL -> Scarlett 2i2 3 gen
  • Clearaudio CA-TRS-1007
  • 8 Hz lateral resonance by HFN test record with Magnat tonearm
Comparing to my VM540ML AT33SA is worse measured: more distortions, lower crosstalk, a bit brighter.
That's why I asked in the post above to compare. I believed that higher priced MC should be better than cheaper MM but...
Finally I've found the official measurements for AT33SA to align with my data. It was in the manual included into the box, so RTFM ;)
+3 dB HF is confirmed, crosstalk is much better.

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Re-checked with Ortofon Test Record 1 kHz sine.
I got 30 dB crosstalk, it's better than measured with CA TRS-1007.
THD is the same, about -42 dB for H2.

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The frequency response is jerky, one channel less, the other much. Which may indicate that the condition of this copy is not the best.
 
The frequency response is jerky

Maybe, I got it used.

PS: I have really jerky one :eek:
I even didn't post it in the thread.
Comparing to this re-tipped OC9ML my AT33SA is fine, at least for me.
1737322768866.png
 
Maybe, I got it used.

PS: I have really jerky one :eek:
I even didn't post it in the thread.
Comparing to this re-tipped OC9ML my AT33SA is fine, at least for me.
View attachment 422446

Yes, the OC9 looks very worn out
In addition to the tips, the damper is worn out. In the MC cartridge, replacing this element is difficult.
In the MM cartridge from Audio Technica, replacing the bracket with a new damper is easy.



OC9.png



a1.jpg


a2.jpg


b1.jpg
 
Maybe, I got it used.

PS: I have really jerky one :eek:
I even didn't post it in the thread.
Comparing to this re-tipped OC9ML my AT33SA is fine, at least for me.
View attachment 422446

That's a phenomena that causes an AM swing once or twice per revolution. It's not an indication of anything wrong with the cartridge.
 
That's a phenomena that causes an AM swing once or twice per revolution. It's not an indication of anything wrong with the cartridge.
But why in one channel?
 
I highly recommend everyone to not take Aero's speculation too seriously. He has not done his homework with respect to the script.

Collective knowledge has been collected, posted, and linked to in the first 4 posts of this thread. I strongly recommend everyone to review that carefully.
 
Can it be my TRS1007 one track issue?
VM540ML and 95E also have some small waves in the blue graph.
And I measured them new.

Test record issues are abundant so that could be a part of it but there is no conclusive answer as to why some results are more "squiggly" than others (especially with respect to the left channel CA TRS-1007 sweep). Perhaps record warp plays a role. I've even seen high pass filters affect the higher frequencies so the individual set-up plays a part in addition to the test record, and that introduces a lot of variables. However, it's always an amalgam of things, including the manner in which the data is processed. One needs to have knowledge of FFTs and coding in order to discuss this more seriously. There is no one to one ratio when it comes to the recorded sweep and graphed FR. Please see the "How It Works" section on the script github page for more information regarding the issues encountered when creating the measurement code and the strategies used to overcome them.

Also, a quick check of CA TRS-1007 measurements posted by various members shows that this is a recurring phenomenon. (Simply look at page 1 for numerous examples. MANY results show a left channel with "squiglier" results.) The test record is essentially a copy of the JVC TRS-1007 so a lot of this may be due to the manufacturing process and exacerbated by individual playback conditions in addition to the manner in which the script analyzes the sweeps. Simply, the CA version of TRS-1007 is technically inferior to the JVC. (And no test record is perfect to begin with.) There is not anywhere near enough evidence to draw any conclusions with respect to cartridge condition and it is reckless to do so. You are all encouraged to explore this phenomenon but please do so though proper experimentation and analysis.

I ask that we move any conversation regarding the script to the appropriate thread.
 
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Ortofon SL 20E
I wanted to check how it plays, because I received it as a bonus for the purchased item.
Very low voltage 0.07 mV, requires high amplification.
It plays very nicely. Relief for the ears ;)
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Sample:

a1.jpg


Second measurement. I blew it out, got the damper going and the cartridge now has a different high frequency response. Now they are above zero and they used to be below.
The entire bracket, along with the coils, rests on the damper under pressure. This damper is over 45 years old, on the miracle side it must be noted that it works properly at all ;)
The bracket construction was two-part.

The frequency response is in the range of +1.5 dB/- 1.6 dB
Currently, Ortofon for the Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge gives the parameter Frequency response 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 2.5 dB



a2.jpg


pp.png

pp2.png
 
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Test record issues are abundant so that could be a part of it but there is no conclusive answer as to why some results are more "squiggly" than others (especially with respect to the left channel CA TRS-1007 sweep). Perhaps record warp plays a role. I've even seen high pass filters affect the higher frequencies so the individual set-up plays a part in addition to the test record, and that introduces a lot of variables. However, it's always an amalgam of things, including the manner in which the data is processed. One needs to have knowledge of FFTs and coding in order to discuss this more seriously. There is no one to one ratio when it comes to the recorded sweep and graphed FR. Please see the "How It Works" section on the script github page for more information regarding the issues encountered when creating the measurement code and the strategies used to overcome them.

Also, a quick check of CA TRS-1007 measurements posted by various members shows that this is a recurring phenomenon. (Simply look at page 1 for numerous examples. MANY results show a left channel with "squiglier" results.) The test record is essentially a copy of the JVC TRS-1007 so a lot of this may be due to the manufacturing process and exacerbated by individual playback conditions in addition to the manner in which the script analyzes the sweeps. Simply, the CA version of TRS-1007 is technically inferior to the JVC. (And no test record is perfect to begin with.) There is not anywhere near enough evidence to draw any conclusions with respect to cartridge condition and it is reckless to do so. You are all encouraged to explore this phenomenon but please do so though proper experimentation and analysis.

I ask that we move any conversation regarding the script to the appropriate thread.
Yes, you are right, the reasons for this can be different,
There is a very large tracking error at the beginning of the record.
It would be necessary to take several measurements with different cartridge settings, with different tracking error settings.
It would be necessary to take several measurements with different settings, such as different azimuth, different pressure, different VTA angle, and different combinations of the above settings. Perhaps some sensible conclusions could be drawn from such comparisons.
It is a lot of work.

The measurement script itself is very good, but the specific measurement results of the same cartridge models will always differ, because there are many mechanical variables that are known to affect the measurement result. Not to mention various electrical variables. The measurement results should therefore be treated as approximate.
If the manufacturer provides the parameter Frequency response 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 2.5 dB, plus other mechanical variables, then it is obvious that with such a large tolerance, the measurement result for this given model can and often is very different.

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If the measurement result looks like the one in the graph below, and in the case of measurement with the same record but a different cartridge, this jerking effect does not occur or is minimal, then either the cartridge has been set incorrectly or the cartridge is in poor technical condition.
A few more measurements with different settings and it will be clear whether it is the poor condition of the cartridge or the poor setting that is to blame.
I am convinced that it is the poor technical condition of the cartridge that is to blame.

I personally treat this script as a great tool for configuring a given cartridge, not as a measuring tool.
 
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@Aero Can we keep this a LIBRARY thread please. Please take the discussion elsewhere like the Fun with Vinyl measurements. I see the same wiggles as you but only on one test record and one cartridge combination , but not others. Let us take the discussion here
 
@Aero Can we keep this a LIBRARY thread please. Please take the discussion elsewhere like the Fun with Vinyl measurements. I see the same wiggles as you but only on one test record and one cartridge combination , but not others. Let us take the discussion here
ok
 
This is your FINAL warning, @Aero. If you derail this thread one more time I will ask for a more permanent intervention. Use some common sense and think before posting.
 
This is your FINAL warning, @Aero. If you derail this thread one more time I will ask for a more permanent intervention. Use some common sense and think before posting.
Agreed. There is a pattern of engagement here @Aero that is less than ideal. Respect the purpose of the thread and the wishes of the OP. Either find a more appropriate thread for what you want to discuss OR start your own
 
Well, someone didn't learn their lesson . Back to library business on here @USER
 
Shure V15 V-MR
Click to increase size
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Notes
  • As good as it gets!
    • Essentially flat at ±0.5 dB
      • I would ignore the waviness of the left channel highs and follow the peaks
        • Each test record has its pressing problems
  • Lightly used, micro-ridge stylus with beryllium cantilever and dynamic stabilizer brush
  • Denon DP-35F has a servo tonearm
    • Compare results at 20Hz with one below to possibly see effect on resonance
  • Recorded with Wayne Kirkwood Flat MM Phono Preamplifier (no RIAA for precision) and E1DA Cosmos ADC
  • You need to record in 192k for full 3rd harmonic distortion data
  • Crosstalk is limited with CA-TRS-1007 but center point at 1kHz should be the measurement (-30 dB)
  • I also have copies that show a slight downward slope after 10kHz and I will run a comparison later

Confirmation of results
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Notes
  • Here I used a Parks Audio Puffin on flat mode with digital out in order to compare and confirm results
    • 44.1 recording limits 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion data
  • Here turntable is Denon DP-30L II (with low mass tonearm)
    • Non-quartz direct drive with much beefier motor and different tonearm
      • So much for turntables having completely different sound signatures!
      • Obviously wow & flutter, rumble, tonearm compatibility, loading, and set-up also matter

CBS STR-100 (Issue 3)
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Stereo Review, December 1984. I would say it is spot on (with the small hump at around 18kHz likely being the test record). Indeed this matches these results from a comparison of all the different CBS STR-100 versions against the industry standard JVC TRS-1007 using the most linear cartridge that we know of.

Use this to better interpret results from the CBS STR-100 Issue 3 by assuming that it has approximately a 0.75 dB bell dip between 5-20kHz and that the above is more or less what flat looks like on it.

Notes
  • Biggest difference is a wide 0.75 dB bell dip in the frequency response
    • Account for set-up and general test record margin of error
    • CBS STR-100 test records can vary a little above 10kHz (flattening helps some)
  • A sweep oscillator switch at 5kHz is evident on every CBS STR-100
    • This is how the test record track was made
    • Ignore it and use the midway point
  • Crosstalk is limited here to -25dB at 1kHz tho this varies from record to record
  • 2nd harmonic distortion is also more limited here at 1kHz at about -40 dB
  • Still, this is the best test record still available and at a reasonable price!
After this was no longer around I had a IV and V and couldn't get OEM stylus at one point I sold off my records& Dual table
 
Ouch! I fully appreciate your disappointment, but while I prefer to play CDs because there's so little distortion, I found no reason to replace the 1200 LPs I have. I am picking up a Jico VN45HE SAS/B stylus in Japan when I visit next month, and will retire my NOS VN45MR, thanks to Thomas_A and the measurements in the Phono Library.
 
Rega Exact

CA-TRS-1007 face A:
Rega_Exact_CA-TRS-1007_A1A2.png


CA-TRS-1007 Face B:
25020807180123417418533413.png

Notes

  • Cartridge: Rega Exact
  • Stylus condition unknown but should be <100hrs (I bought it around 2010 and I wasn't listening lots of vynils anymore)
  • Test record: brand new CA-TRS-1007 (tracks A1/A2 and B1/B2).
  • Turntable: Rega Planar 3 (First version, from 1977 (date on the parcel, I'm the second owner), with Motor upgrade (not the 24V upgrade, the previous one)
  • Tracking force: 1.75g
  • Phono stage: Elektor SUPRA (DIY discrete phono preamp, optimised version made by former Selectronic company).
  • Capacitance- Unknown, said to be 280pF in Elektor article
  • Rega cartridge alignment (close to Stevenson)
 
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