Whaaaaat? Can you cite a couple of them?
That would be so lame...
Edit: I mean citing the ones which have a sub out without high pass for the mains.
this is something I personally own https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/amplifiers/pma-600ne
Whaaaaat? Can you cite a couple of them?
That would be so lame...
Edit: I mean citing the ones which have a sub out without high pass for the mains.
Do you mean this in general or for amplifiers that has subwoofer outputs?Yes. the vast majority of Hi-Fi amplifiers have no way of applying a high-pass filter. not even a fixed one at 80Hz.
Do you mean this in general or for amplifiers that has subwoofer outputs?
Heewww, I didn't know it was possible... Thanks for the enlightment!this is something I personally own https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/amplifiers/pma-600ne
I don't know if this falls under your definition of Hi-Fi, but I have bought a couple of desktop amps where this is true. The SMSL SA300 sub out is just a summed full-range pre-amp output and there is no high pass filter. The Nobsound NS-20G advertised subwoofer output is really just a full-range headphone output. Again, there is no high-pass filter.Whaaaaat? Can you cite a couple of them?
That would be so lame...
Edit: I mean citing the ones which have a sub out without high pass for the mains.
Denon engineers had been exceedingly naughty. However, maybe you can now understand why I specified "adjustable" crossover frequency. Not only your amp will fail to qualify but it also exposed the cunningly misleading marketing Denon in this case and according to you, the vast majority of the industry is involved that I was not aware of.this is something I personally own https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/amplifiers/pma-600ne
I don't know if this falls under your definition of Hi-Fi, but I have bought a couple of desktop amps where this is true. The SMSL SA300 sub out is just a summed full-range pre-amp output and there is no high pass filter. The Nobsound NS-20G advertised subwoofer output is really just a full-range headphone output. Again, there is no high-pass filter.
Denon engineers had been exceedingly naughty. However, maybe you can now understand why I specified "adjustable" crossover frequency. Not only your amp will fail to qualify but it also exposed the cunningly misleading marketing Denon in this case and according to you, the vast majority of the industry is involved.
In those examples we can maybe blame the cheap Chinese amps but what about Denon, one of the most respected Hi-Fi manufacturers?!I don't know if this falls under your definition of Hi-Fi, but I have bought a couple of desktop amps where this is true. The SMSL SA300 sub out is just a summed full-range pre-amp output and there is no high pass filter. The Nobsound NS-20G advertised subwoofer output is really just a full-range headphone output. Again, there is no high-pass filter.
Seems as though Denon and the industry at large has decided an AVR is the integrated solution for this particular market need.In those examples we can maybe blame the cheap Chinese amps but what about Denon, one of the most respected Hi-Fi manufacturers?!
Nahhh, you are a bit rough around the edges (at least for me) but I see (from all the posts) that it seems to be pretty genuine (this sentence is really meant to be positive and to un-tense the atmosphere), so in the end that's fine.Denon engineers had been exceedingly naughty. However, maybe you can now understand why I specified "adjustable" crossover frequency. Not only your amp will fail to qualify but it also exposed the cunningly misleading marketing Denon in this case and according to you, the vast majority of the industry is involved that I was not aware of.
It seems I was the boy who was shouting "the emperor has no cloths on" and told not to be rude
I am very surprised that not many integrated amps these days have pre-out/main-in connections anymore. Otherwise, you can simply tap the pre-outs to a MiniDSP 2x4 HD, HPF the mains to go back to the main-ins, and connect sub(s) to the remaining 2 channels. It should just be that simple.What I see as readily apparent is that there actually aren't many solutions for a relatively simple, inexpensive 2 channel device that offers decent power and performance, bass management, and room and sub eq. Of those that you can find, they are often exorbitantly expensive. It is somewhat ludicrous that a 7 channel AVR is the optimal solution other than the unnecessary size and lots of included features that aren't needed. My deduction is that it just comes down to too small of a niche market for many products like these to be offered. An overwhelmingly vast majority of audiophiles will turn their nose up at such a product precisely *because* it offers bass management and eq. Another big part of the market does not want to limit themselves to *only* 2 channels and no video capability, so AVR's fit the bill. Even Denon's integrated 2 channel products do not have bass management or eq, while cost is in the same ballpark as their 7 channel AVR's that include all this capability. Since Denon already has Audyssey XT32, Sub Eq HT, DEQ, and bass management capability in their AVR's, I do kind of wonder why they don't offer a 2 channel integrated with these features. Surely they could bring a product like this to market for half the price of a 7 channel AVR. Again though, perhaps there are just so few who don't also want the convenience of being able to use with a display or a center channel and surrounds if desired, or as needs change?
What I see as readily apparent is that there actually aren't many solutions for a relatively simple, inexpensive 2 channel device that offers decent power and performance, bass management, and room and sub eq. Of those that you can find, they are often exorbitantly expensive. It is somewhat ludicrous that a 7 channel AVR is the optimal solution other than the unnecessary size and lots of included features that aren't needed. My deduction is that it just comes down to too small of a niche market for many products like these to be offered. An overwhelmingly vast majority of audiophiles will turn their nose up at such a product precisely *because* it offers bass management and eq. Another big part of the market does not want to limit themselves to *only* 2 channels and no video capability, so AVR's fit the bill. Even Denon's integrated 2 channel products do not have bass management or eq, while cost is in the same ballpark as their 7 channel AVR's that include all this capability. Since Denon already has Audyssey XT32, Sub Eq HT, DEQ, and bass management capability in their AVR's, I do kind of wonder why they don't offer a 2 channel integrated with these features. Surely they could bring a product like this to market for half the price of a 7 channel AVR. Again though, perhaps there are just so few who don't also want the convenience of being able to use with a display or a center channel and surrounds if desired, or as needs change?
A better question would be.....list 2 channel equipment that have sub outs and DO have bass management. The list is very short, especially if you try to keep cost reasonable.Whaaaaat? Can you cite a couple of them?
That would be so lame...
Edit: I mean citing the ones which have a sub out without high pass for the mains.
A better question would be.....list 2 channel equipment that have sub outs and DO have bass management.
An AVR is a perfectly acceptable solution for me in my living room to allow me to combine small speakers with subwoofers for better overall performance than sound bars or 2.0 towers. I do sympathize with your search as I wish there was a better integrated solution for my desktop.So far my take is the industry has decided that if you want to have a system with small speakers, you should buy a smart speaker or a sound bar with an optional but matching subwoofer. The way Herman’s Citation line evolving is a good example for this.
On the other hand if you want a larger system then major players offer AVRs as they expect a large system will be used in an AV room. The rest of the market is served by niche products like miniDSP as the market is too small for major players.
in short, Hi-Fi separates as we knew for half a century has disappeared for the mass market. It is in rude health in the esoteric end though.