Integrated stereo amplifier with bass-management?

[Ron Texas]

There is nothing wrong with Elac. I clearly said "I am trying to find out what else is out there. "

You sure are playing your cards close to your chest. I can't help you without more information.

 

[sarumbear]

You sure are playing your cards close to your chest. I can't help you without more information.

What gave you the idea that I am playing a game? I listed clear specifications. I said I found just one unit (Elac) that qualifies and asked if there any others in the market.

How open do you want me to get? What else do you want to know?

I am not asking advice on how to use something, or what to use. I am asking information about devices that fit a specification.

 

[Ron Texas]

What gave you the idea that I am playing a game? I listed clear specifications. I said I found just one unit (Elac) that qualifies and asked if there any others in the market.

How open do you want me to get? What else do you want to know?

I am not asking advice on how to use something, or what to use. I am asking information about devices that fit a specification.

At this point I don't want to know anything about you or what you want.

 

[deprogrammed]

Hi

On the Emotiva speaker review thread a discussion has started on the availability of integrated stereo amplifier with bass-management and subwoofer output that will allow small speakers to be used with a subwoofer? Sometimes this is called a 2.1 setup.

The requirements are:

1. A one unit solution as in "integrated"
2. Good amplification suitable for Hi-Fi usage
3. Physical volume control and not depending on an app to use it.
4. At least one analogue input
5. At least one analogue subwoofer output
6. Adjustable subwoofer crossover frequency.
7. Cost no more than US$1000 or thereabouts
8. Available to the UK

Bonus features:

1. Small size as they will be used with small speakers which are often used in confined spaces.
2. Adjustable subwoofer crossover slope
3. Wireless streaming
4. Roon endpoint

Not acceptable are:

1. An AVR
2. No video circuity

So far the following mentioned. All failed to satisfy the above criteria other than the ELAC (last item). I am trying to find out what else is out there.

• https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/r-n803/index.html
• https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/amplifiers/heos-amp
• https://www.parasound.com/200_Integrated.php
• https://www.parasound.com/hint6.php
• https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/amp.html
• https://outlawaudio.com/shop/stereo-receivers/56-rr2160mkii-stereo-receiver.html
• https://www.elac.com/home-theater-amplifiers/discovery-series-dsa101-g/

People on the above referenced forum swear by this 2.1 solution, which has even a THX standard attached to it but other than an AVR I can see just one suitable integrated amplifier. What am I missing?

Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

So why not and AVR? The economies of scare outweigh paying for features you won't use. People swear the earth is flat. There isn't a lot of demand for a 2.1 system, obviously. Purist don't want it and others just use an AVR.

 

[sarumbear]

There isn't a lot of demand for a 2.1 system, obviously. Purist don't want it and others just use an AVR.

It seems so, but how am I supposed to know that if I do not research for it? Is it forbidden or not cool to do research in this forum?

I am a complete loss at the reaction I get here. I am trying to be objective in my selection of device. Should one must take advice, which is almost always subjective on what fits what? Can't I make my own mind in selecting what to use?

I am asking in a audio forum if there are any devices that match my specs. It is as simple as that. If what I am looking doesn't exist, in a mature industry as Hi-Fi, most likely there is no market for it. And, I will know.

Why would a science orientated forum member insist that I change my specs. Can't they accept that a fellow forum is doing this as a research for reasons of his own? Why do they want to know his reasoning?

 

[MrPeabody]

The Elac seems to fit your bill, and considering that your requirements are very specific and not common, it seems fortuitous that there is even one component that fits your bill. In fact, it almost seems as though you were well aware of the features by which the Elac is unique and wrote the post expressly to draw attention to it. No matter. Personally I don't like it because aesthetics matter to me and I do not like the aesthetics of that unit in the least. And I greatly dislike the idea of a button that you have to repeatedly push to select the input. Push buttons are good for things that have two states, i.e., on and off, not for selecting among multiple choices, and not for adjusting a level via repeated pushing. To be fair, the manual says that you can hold the button in and cycle through the inputs, however for me this would be annoying because this kind of "smart" control always involves a timer in the logic, i.e., you hold the button, then after a little delay, it starts scrolling through the inputs. That little delay would be very irksome for me, and most likely the scrolling speed would be annoying. At the very least there should be a knob that turns that you use to scroll through the inputs. Ideally there will be a set of buttons so that you don't even have to turn the knob. I actually find the knob that you have to turn moderately annoying, but it is an annoyance that I can live with, whereas I wouldn't put up with a single button that you push to select the input source. (Also, I personally would not want a stereo audio integrated amplifier or receiver that didn't include a well-implemented loudness control.)

 

[Gurkerl]

The SVS Prime Wireless Soundbase seems like a good option. It lacks adjustable crossover frequency, but you can do that via the Subs themselves. Considering its price that's a trade-off I would be willing to make. Plus you get streaming on top of all that.

 

[davide78]

Why would a science orientated forum member insist that I change my specs. Can't they accept that a fellow forum is doing this as a research for reasons of his own? Why do they want to know his reasoning?

Because we can be more helpful if we know what goal you want to achieve and what is your use case. There are many ways to set up a stereo system with bass-management, and not knowing why you have excluded some of them does not help the discussion.

Also, other users may be interested in setting up a 2.1 system, but may have different needs or preferences. Opening up the discussion to alternatives may help them as well.

 

[oursmagenta]

It seems so, but how am I supposed to know that if I do not research for it? Is it forbidden or not cool to do research in this forum?

I am a complete loss at the reaction I get here. I am trying to be objective in my selection of device. Should one must take advice, which is almost always subjective on what fits what? Can't I make my own mind in selecting what to use?

I am asking in a audio forum if there are any devices that match my specs. It is as simple as that. If what I am looking doesn't exist, in a mature industry as Hi-Fi, most likely there is no market for it. And, I will know.

Why would a science orientated forum member insist that I change my specs. Can't they accept that a fellow forum is doing this as a research for reasons of his own? Why do they want to know his reasoning?

I think I'm not alone sensing a slightly defensive attitude. Being straight to the point doesn't mean that we can't add a bit of tact in the mix.

 

[FrantzM]

I think I'm not alone sensing a slightly defensive attitude. Being straight to the point doesn't mean that we can't add a bit of tact in the mix.

+1

You're one of the polite people here, the majority. I find the OP general demeanor, at least in this thread, rude. I think , I am saying aloud what many are thinking.

 

[daclogic]

I do not want video circuity. I think I made it clear from the onset.

Besides, it doesn't have variable xover frequency.

No you didn't. You said that what was not acceptable was 'no video circuitry'. You said the opposite.

 

[MrPeabody]

No you didn't. You said that what was not acceptable was 'no video circuitry'. You said the opposite.

Yes he did that, however it was obvious what he intended.

 

[sarumbear]

No you didn't. You said that what was not acceptable was 'no video circuitry'. You said the opposite.

I apologise for making a grammar mistake. I can see that now. I should have said "video circuity". I will correct it if I can.

 

[sarumbear]

The Elac seems to fit your bill, and considering that your requirements are very specific and not common, it seems fortuitous that there is even one component that fits your bill. In fact, it almost seems as though you were well aware of the features by which the Elac is unique and wrote the post expressly to draw attention to it. No matter. Personally I don't like it because aesthetics matter to me and I do not like the aesthetics of that unit in the least. And I greatly dislike the idea of a button that you have to repeatedly push to select the input. Push buttons are good for things that have two states, i.e., on and off, not for selecting among multiple choices, and not for adjusting a level via repeated pushing. ...

I was no way endorsing Elac nor paying attention to it. I listed as last, just mentioned its name once. I clearly said that I am looking for other units that fit the criteria. In fact after what I read your comments I will reject the Elac unit it as well. UI is a very important element of any device.

... I find the OP general demeanor, at least in this thread, rude. I think , I am saying aloud what many are thinking.

This is the second thread where I was told I am rude. I was even put on probation. I am not a rude person. I hate to be seen as rude. I am very sorry and I beg you to point me anything I said that has anything rude? Your help will be greatly appreciated. This is not a sarcasm!

 

[GGroch]

The Elac seems to fit your bill, and considering that your requirements are very specific and not common....

I suppose the dearth of products meeting the specs is proof enough the requirements are not common. I cannot understand why this is so. The benefits of room calibration/bass management are well accepted even by non-audiophiles. The benefits are easily demonstrated on the sales floor, as are the benefits of adding a powered sub. I'm with sarumbear in not understanding why there is not more demand.

I believe the Martin-Logan Forte amp and its near twin Paradigm PW Amp may also meet the OP's specs, although Amir's PW Amp test calls into question whether they have "good amplification". In Amir's "Not Recommended" conclusion he does state: "No doubt room EQ will make a bigger difference than any of these measurements do in the sound of the amplifier. So there is good value there."

I think this is objectively true, which once again brings into question why bass management/room eQ is not common in 2 channel equipment.

ADD: As an Elac owner, (older version) I have absolutely no complaints about its ergonomics. While it lacks direct input buttons, the included wireless remote does have them. The designer's assumed remote switching would be more useful to most owners. When I did change inputs on the front panel (I only use analog and optical) it seemed fast and simple.

 

[sarumbear]

Because we can be more helpful if we know what goal you want to achieve and what is your use case. There are many ways to set up a stereo system with bass-management, and not knowing why you have excluded some of them does not help the discussion.

Also, other users may be interested in setting up a 2.1 system, but may have different needs or preferences. Opening up the discussion to alternatives may help them as well.

From the onset I said that I am researching devices that fit a criteria. I was not starting a discussion. I rejected the listed devices as they did not satisfy the spec. That should be obvious. If I made a mistake and one of the devices does satisfy the spec than I hoped I would be told.

I specifically started a new thread to tap into the great cumulative knowledge of ASR to help me find integrated stereo amplifiers that satisfy "a" criteria. Why I have that spec is a different topic. If someone starts it I will be happy to participate/answer.

I am told I am rude, which I profusely reject. However I cannot help myself to point out that offering me AVRs when I specifically said no AVRs; asking me if I have allergy to AVRs; or suggesting a digital only unit when the spec says analogue inputs or a unit that is five times over budget, is also rude. Because that either means you didn't respect or care what I want or you are pushing your own agenda. I was even told I act like I believe the earth is flat!

I was asking help. I ended up being told I am rude because I have a difficult to match spec and/or I said no to suggested units not matching my specs. I am at a loss...

 

[sarumbear]

I suppose the dearth of products meeting the specs is proof enough the requirements are not common. I cannot understand why this is so. The benefits of room calibration/bass management are well accepted even by non-audiophiles. The benefits are easily demonstrated on the sales floor, as are the benefits of adding a powered sub. I'm with sarumbear in not understanding why there is not more demand.

I believe the Martin-Logan Forte amp and its near twin Paradigm PW Amp may also meet the OP's specs, although Amir's PW Amp test calls into question whether they have "good amplification". In Amir's "Not Recommended" conclusion he does state: "No doubt room EQ will make a bigger difference than any of these measurements do in the sound of the amplifier. So there is good value there."

I think this is objectively true, which once again brings into question why bass management/room eQ is not common in 2 channel equipment.

I was not in a loss until someone mentioned the 2.1 being a good solution for small speakers and I started to search for suitable integrated amplifiers. I am now getting pretty lost since the list is made of just one unit.

Martin-Logan Forte amp and its near twin Paradigm PW Amp are indeed perfect, however they are not available to me, here in the UK. It also looks like they are treated as end-of-line.

 

[FrantzM]

Last post on the thread ...

I actually learned from this thread. I would have thought the OP solution to be easy and commonplace. it is not.
I do believe there is a gentler way to express dissent. It could be the OP personal style and In real life, vocal inflexions intonations, body or facial expressions may/could help. Such don't translate well (or at all) in internet fora.
Out.

 

[abdo123]

Last post on the thread ...

I actually learned from this thread. I would have thought the OP solution to be easy and commonplace. it is not.
I do believe there is a gentler way to express dissent. It could be the OP personal style and In real life, vocal inflexions intonations, body or facial expressions may/could help. Such don't translate well (or at all) in internet fora.
Out.

High-end audio is a mess. do you know how complicated things have to be before you get a high pass filter without an AVR?

none of the devices OP mentioned has it, and it is arguably more important than analogue inputs in 2021.

 

[maverickronin]

I sympathize with the OP. I wouldn't want an AVR for this either. They bring too many other problems to the table.

For similar reasons I recently replaced my TV with a 43" "monitor" which was quite a bit more expensive than an equivalent display sold as a "TV" because I didn't want any "smart" BS in it.

Economies of scale are weird.