Inside Yamaha amps

[TheBatsEar]

You don't have to dissect it -- just pop the top!

Sounds simple enough, but then i have to rip it out of the rack first, which then must be dusted off, which is a task in itself.

Current project on my workbench is a Prusa Mini clone which is coming along really nice, i'm dialing it in right now.

Anyway, since there is a general lack of hardware to repair on my bench, i ordered a A-1020 in black, a A-550 in silver, a RX-300 in silver and a RX-10 in titan, all should be here within a week or two.

 

[Paradigm5h1f7]

I watched that video and hated it. It's absolutely ridiculous. What on earth is a "sound tuning for the European market"? I don't know what the power dynamic is in these two individuals' working relationship, but I felt sorry for the guy changing the parts in the amp having to pretend he understands the European guy's subjective descriptions of the sound. "Still, I'm missing some kind of rest. So, a little more body. Just, tiny little bit." WTF?!

I hate to call people out... but have people heard the sonic differences a cheap crossover network makes vs higher end film caps, mills resistors of exactly the same values? I don't think this is bs at all. Sound shaping is definitely a thing. As well as how clean the input power is, among many other things. These high end DAC's, like the Pontus II, use two torroidal transformers, and an insane array of capacitors to eliminate switching noises, and clean up the DC input. That is for a DAC which probably uses 10 watts, and outputs 2 volts. All of it has an effect on sonic fidelity IMHO.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I hate to call people out... but have people heard the sonic differences a cheap crossover network makes vs higher end film caps, mills resistors of exactly the same values? I don't think this is bs at all. Sound shaping is definitely a thing. As well as how clean the input power is, among many other things. These high end DAC's, like the Pontus II, use two torroidal transformers, and an insane array of capacitors to eliminate switching noises, and clean up the DC input. That is for a DAC which probably uses 10 watts, and outputs 2 volts. All of it has an effect on sonic fidelity IMHO.

Really? An amplifier measures flat from 10 - 100.000 Hz in Germany and Japan, does this amplifier have different "colouration" to the sound?

I think it's marketing B.S. from Yamaha.

 

[usersky]

Really? An amplifier measures flat from 10 - 100.000 Hz in Germany and Japan, does this amplifier have different "colouration" to the sound?

I think it's marketing B.S. from Yamaha.

Just listen carefully to all they chat. They try to tune tone correction controls (treble, bass, loudness). That is supposed to change the sound and arguably some cultures may prefer more or less or just different curves. It is of course marketing bullshit since you can do all this without trying by changing caps travelling a guy from Japan for this, but total nonsense it is not. I can assure you loudness, that is tuned and changes sound is exemplary implemented by Yamaha as a tradition.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Just listen carefully to all they chat. They try to tune tone correction controls (treble, bass, loudness). That is supposed to change the sound and arguably some cultures may prefer more or less or just different curves. It is of course marketing bullshit since you can do all this without trying by changing caps travelling a guy from Japan for this, but total nonsense it is not. I can assure you loudness, that is tuned and changes sound is exemplary implemented by Yamaha as a tradition.

Ahh! -So it is the curves and frequencies of the tone control knobs, bass and treble, they make different? -That may be a thing of course, to cater to different tastes.
If so, I have not been listening careful enough to the interview and misunderstood.

 

[restorer-john]

Yamaha's tone controls, variable loudness contour and filters back in the day were very good. These days, not so much.

 

[usersky]

I love loudness control on my old ax-640 that I use in my home office. This amp won't go anywhere soon. With a minidsp flex on it's processor loop, dirac live and two elac dbr62 makes me wish to stay more at the desk. You can say I am a bit nostalgic considering I keep some old but dear to my heart devices tethered to that yammy: a Sony cdp-227esd, a Sony mini disk mds-jb930qs, a Sony cassette deck tc-k 808es and a revox b790 turntable. Don't use them much but they look good. Next to them, as know restorer-John loves them, a Tooping DX3pro, made redundant by mindispflex

 

[SacreDro]

Hi guys, I was looking into Yamaha A-S1000 and even newer A-S1100/A-S1200, but the newer ones are outside my budget.
I found the A-S1000 for around 700Euro, maybe less if I negociate, but I was looking also at the Pioneer A-717 or newer A-777 which is mostly identical, but from what I researched with plastic knobs, early 90's had plastic knobs unlike the late 80's.
Also I was looking at Sony ES models from the same period as the Pioneer, like Sony TA-F505ES, TA-F700ES etc., there are quite a few out there and I am not sure of what to buy.
Currently I have the Yamaha A-S201 as a desktop amp for my PC and want a robust, reliable, easy to maintain amplifier that gives good sound.

My electrician guy doesn't like the newer ones, since most have microprocessors and motherboards that once they break, you have to source a whole new board, found out the hard way when I bought a Primare SPA-22 which had integrates in it and not classic transistors and was defective, probably a microprocessor was bad and I am now stuck it, lucky I got my money back, but lost around 200 Euro on shipping, taxes, probably even more.

Was looking also at the cheaper Yamaha alternatives like the A-S501/701 or A-S700/R-S700, which from research look pretty much the same, the A-S801 is hard to find new/used at a decent prince and from what I understood it is better to buy a external DAC from Topping/SMSL for the price difference between it and A-S701 priced new.

Any inputs on what is the best way to go, since I don't plan on upgrading my amp for some time and wanted to know which is more reliable on the long run and fixable(I'm afraid not to end up with a modern one like the A-S1000, that has some integrated chips in it, those may break and I might up scrapping it for parts not being able to fix it for a fair amount or not being able to source the motherboard part).

Yamaha AX-900 looks good also, anyway most used Pioneer's, Sony's and Yamaha's that I mentioned go for around 200-300 Euro, give or take and are probably the way to go, the older and hi-end Yamaha's like the A-1000, A-2000 have gone up in price like crazy, at around 1000 Euro or more, vintage CA-1000/CA-1010 also, I did a lot of research.

Thanks.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Yamaha's tone controls, variable loudness contour and filters back in the day were very good. These days, not so much.

What changed?

I found the A-S1000 for around 700Euro, maybe less if I negociate

I had them. In terms of power, noise, THD, material and feel, they compare very well. In fact, i would be hard pressed to remember any difference that is not the VU meters.
The A-S1000 for 700€ is a fair price, everything below is an excellent price, given that it's not scratched or something. No plastic there, it's all hefty metal and very heavy.

Currently I have the Yamaha A-S201 as a desktop amp for my PC and want a robust, reliable, easy to maintain amplifier that gives good sound.

The A-S1000 sure would do that. If you don't need much power, consider the A-S500/501, it's better in all metrics than the A-S201. In fact, i think the 201 isn't even a good example of Yamaha amps at all. What is the difference between the 501 and the 1000? Power, weight and dare i say it, status. If you don't need that, the A-S501 is probably the sweetspot in Yamahas current offerings.

Any inputs on what is the best way to go, since I don't plan on upgrading my amp for some time and wanted to know which is more reliable on the long run

Hard to say, but the amount of A-S500/501 sold in the market suggests parts will be available for decades. I personally would go for a A-S1000 regardless, chances are it will still be good in 40 years, just like a 501.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

What changed?

I had them. In terms of power, noise, THD, material and feel, they compare very well. In fact, i would be hard pressed to remember any difference that is not the VU meters.
The A-S1000 for 700€ is a fair price, everything below is an excellent price, given that it's not scratched or something. No plastic there, it's all hefty metal and very heavy.


The A-S1000 sure would do that. If you don't need much power, consider the A-S500/501, it's better in all metrics than the A-S201. In fact, i think the 201 isn't even a good example of Yamaha amps at all. What is the difference between the 501 and the 1000? Power, weight and dare i say it, status. If you don't need that, the A-S501 is probably the sweetspot in Yamahas current offerings.


Hard to say, but the amount of A-S500/501 sold in the market suggests parts will be available for decades. I personally would go for a A-S1000 regardless, chances are it will still be good in 40 years, just like a 501.

Yamaha A-S1000 doesn't have much power. It's rated at 2 x 90 W at 8 ohms if i recall correctly and measurements confirm that it isn't rated conservative either.
It's quite remarkable why they made it so heavy and solid only to disappoint with it's power. Shame.

 

[restorer-john]

Yamaha A-S1000 doesn't have much power. It's rated at 2 x 90 W at 8 ohms if i recall correctly and measurements confirm that it isn't rated conservative either.
It's quite remarkable why they made it so heavy and solid only to disappoint with it's power. Shame.

What specific measurements and by who, are you referring to?

 

[SacreDro]

@TheBYeah I was looking at many amplifiers, also the vintage ones wich I want to service if I can find decent ones, like the CA-1000 from Yamaha CR-800, AX-800, A-1000, Pioneer A-717/757 or Sony ES series, Kenwoodbalso has the DA-9010 or KA-3300D if I recall that are decent.
The Yamaha A-S1000 was a newer one so I wouldn't have to service it as often, the Yamaha A-S501 has agood price and honesly I listen to low volume in general and will use the amplifier in a small room and was looking at one taht offers clarity at low levels, hooked up to a Denon CD player, I also have a Grundig amplifier converted with a bluetooth receiver which works decently and was looking at the Chinese market for a digital amp like the SMSL DA9 for example which measures very well.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

What specific measurements and by who, are you referring to?

This-->
Polish test of A-S1100
And a YouTube Vidjeo-->
A-S1100 youtube clip test >Stereopolice<

And I mean the output power specifically. I'd personally expect more from such a "heavy duty" constructed amplifier. Price is subjective but the 1/2/3xxx series ain't cheap.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Yamaha A-S1000 doesn't have much power. It's rated at 2 x 90 W at 8 ohms

That sounds to me like plenty. I have a pair of ATC SCM19v2, not the most sensitive ones, and they go loud with the A-S1000 and 1200. Not saying that there aren't speakers that need more for loud listening, but they should be rare. How much power do you think one needs?

@SacreDro since you are concerned with long term stability, consider the R-S700. Digital source selector and volume knob, these are the first parts that usually go bad if they are not of the highest quality. I haven't seen a A-1000 in a decade or so that didn't have some kind of damage.
The A-S1000 should be fine however.
The A-S300 to 801? Not so much.

 

[SacreDro]

That sounds to me like plenty. I have a pair of ATC SCM19v2, not the most sensitive ones, and they go loud with the A-S1000 and 1200. Not saying that there aren't speakers that need more for loud listening, but they should be rare. How much power do you think one needs?

@SacreDro since you are concerned with long term stability, consider the R-S700. Digital source selector and volume knob, these are the first parts that usually go bad if they are not of the highest quality. I haven't seen a A-1000 in a decade or so that didn't have some kind of damage.
The A-S1000 should be fine however.
The A-S300 to 801? Not so much.

I get what you are saying, the R-S700 from what I know is the same as the A-S700.
Found a mint silver A-1000 for around 400ish bucks, this and the A-S1000 are in my short list, the vintage ones like the CA1000 are hard to find for a decent price and in good condition.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

That sounds to me like plenty. I have a pair of ATC SCM19v2, not the most sensitive ones, and they go loud with the A-S1000 and 1200. Not saying that there aren't speakers that need more for loud listening, but they should be rare. How much power do you think one needs?

@SacreDro since you are concerned with long term stability, consider the R-S700. Digital source selector and volume knob, these are the first parts that usually go bad if they are not of the highest quality. I haven't seen a A-1000 in a decade or so that didn't have some kind of damage.
The A-S1000 should be fine however.
The A-S300 to 801? Not so much.

My speakers have seven drivers each. The A-S1000 doesn't like playing too loud with these. Of course it is plenty powerful for your bookshelf speaker. Our use cases can't really be compared as you do. I know for a fact that I get much better control and sound at higher volume if I use my Yamaha P3200 (340 W@8 ohm) power amp instead. This was my previous setup. Now I have a MiniDSP w. Dirac Live and a SVS sub so I have high-pass filtered the mains so the A-S1000 doesn't get overburdened anymore.

 

[dualazmak]

Now I have a MiniDSP w. Dirac Live and a SVS sub so I have high-pass filtered the mains so the A-S1000 doesn't get overburdened anymore.

Hello @Holdt and friends on this thread,

Yes, in DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier setup, we can take "right person (amp) in right place" approach; we do not need "powerful amplifiers" in driving our tweeters/super-tweeters.

Please find my latest system setup here in my project thread where I now use Yamaha A-S3000 (driving woofers), Accuphase E-460 (driving mid-range squawkers), Sony TA-A1ES (driving tweeters) and Yamaha A-S301 (driving super-tweeters) all nice "integrated amplifiers", plus L&R large heavy sub-woofer Yamaha YST-SW1000 which has powerful biult-in amplifier in it. I went through rather intensive and long journey/exploration for the selection of amplifiers in my project; you may find Hyperlink Index for the project here and here.

This post would be also of your interest for rationale of using small amp for tweeters and/or super-tweeters.

 

[TheBatsEar]

mint silver A-1000 for around 400ish bucks

I have a A-1020 in black, looks mint too, but the source selector needs a good scrubbing and a few caps need replacing. Some pots are degraded by time.
I really wouldn't recommend it, unless you like to repair stuff. If the caps are replaced 400 $/€ might be fair tough.

If you can get a A-S1000, go for it, it has likely decades before it needs fixing. The source selector is robust, good relays, volume control is electronic (despite feeling analog, it's just a simple potentiometer). Also look for A-S2000, sometimes they are at the same price.
Use https://www.hifishark.com/ to search on multiple portals, a black one can be had for 550€ and up, a silver one for 650€ and up.

 

[gentlejax]

And here is the Yamaha R-S700 receiver.

It shares it's power amplifier with the A-S700, 701 and 801. The R-S700 has variable loudness, a FM/AM tuner, pre-out/main as well as rec select and subwoofer out.

This is the used device i recommend to anyone with less than 250€ but in need for really solid amplification and a rich feature set.

Usually i go for silver (i have a silver one too), but why not show the black one:
View attachment 200348

I find black hard to keep clean, so i try to go for silver when i can. This one came with something else and will be sold:
View attachment 200350

View attachment 200349

View attachment 200351

Overview:
View attachment 200361

12000µF caps.
View attachment 200353

Phono section:
View attachment 200354

Tuner section:
View attachment 200355

Sanken transistors:
View attachment 200356

Front left:
View attachment 200357

Front middle:
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Front right:
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Time to close up:
View attachment 200360

The backside:
View attachment 200352

had the receiver more than once because it was affordable on the used market and had PRE OUTS /SUB out for using my good amplification.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Best ofer for AS1200 is around 1900 euro in EU, just for info

Used one in silver can be had for 1350€ right now, seller has the original box and is willing to send:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/yamaha-a-s1200/2314027718-172-4263

I would do it, if i didn't have one already.