Insane: Denon DP-3000NE

[Bob from Florida]

Typical speed reading on Performance DC after adjustment and checking back later.

 

[morillon]

a little quickly...but often the interest of especially to "dig into" the subjects of w&f (but very linked to the seriousness of the disk is used, the big limit of this approach) ...it seems not available (?)... ;-)

 

[Snoopy]

i'm not saying this is good or bad but for $2,5k... and this is probalby one of the more high end units... is there an expectation to be made in japan???

i think the yamaha as 1200 and mid spec marantz stuff is made in vietnam??

It’s made by a OEM in Taiwan or China. Can’t remember but definitely not made in Japan.

Yamaha stuff is made in Malaysia (at least my SL1500C is) . But I wouldn’t worry about that as long as it’s made to the specs of the denon Or Yamaha .

If you want made in Japan you will probably pay considerably more (look at luxman or accuphase or highend offerings of denon, Yamaha stuff).

 

[Bob from Florida]

a little quickly...but often the interest of especially to "dig into" the subjects of w&f (but very linked to the seriousness of the disk is used, the big limit of this approach) ...it seems not available (?)... ;-)

If I cannot hear warbling of piano notes, I don't and I am good. Last time I checked it with the phone app it was good enough. This was before the added mass of the clamping ring.

 

[morillon]

If I cannot hear warbling of piano notes, I don't and I am good. Last time I checked it with the phone app it was good enough. This was before the added mass of the clamping ring.
View attachment 363784

the speed "so enormous" modifies in parts the measurement of flutter and wow....but 0.18% this value is enormous... personally I will not be able to listen like this... as a reminder because seems forgotten...the famous 3k or 3k15 of test was also designed to be listened to...see essentially listened to ( was essentially used "by everyone", 60s 70s 80s, without measurement capabilities..) ...invites you to do it..it will be..edifying ;-)

 

[Bob from Florida]

the speed "so enormous" modifies in parts the measurement of flutter and wow....but 0.18% this value is enormous... personally I will not be able to listen like this... as a reminder because seems forgotten...the famous 3k or 3k15 of test was also designed to be listened to...see essentially listened to ( was essentially used "by everyone", 60s 70s 80s, without measurement capabilities..) ...invites you to do it..it will be..edifying ;-)

I can't hear anything out of place. Then again the measurement app may be way off. The reported speed was always higher than the Waxwing measurements of the runout track click.

 

[morillon]

it is easy to make a 3k or 3k15 in the rew generator etc to realize what a stable signal can be etc the choice of a fairly high but reasonable frequency is understandable because it allows modifications variation in proportion evident when listening.... this is why was in all the general public test LP discs while people of course did not have a wf-meter ;-)

 

[Thomas_A]

If I cannot hear warbling of piano notes, I don't and I am good. Last time I checked it with the phone app it was good enough. This was before the added mass of the clamping ring.
View attachment 363784

Phone apps are a bit different. I use the w/f app, and it fluctuates between 0.05-0.08%, and I guess it is unweighted w/f. It's a bit fast unloaded but gets closer to 33.3 during play.

Comparison with NAK+test record:

 

[morillon]

there are so many situations where the measurement by app is clumsy... depending on the manufacture of the LP, suspended flexible or not, or the centering at best on a pressing pallet etc... which must indeed be taken into account. .. but on its rather """"solid """" constructions the results can be coherent and reproducible etc.
;-)7
example... last "rpm-wow" android*... main frequency 50.00hz, no compensate
(but a phone not so big that this samsung, result is a little better like 0.05/0.03..old vpi 19mk4 " for downgrade", rather stiff suspension , just effort for lubrication , no talc ;-)...standart-no regulation ac, speed avg can move 33.31/33.4 ... can also taint the measurement of w&f a little at the margin by these slow shifts)


in my modest use, just w&f, ( belt control, belt tension, lubrication efforts etc ) and on this turntable, this app with this phone is sufficient for me
;-)
*ps.. I had to uninstall the app and reinstall it with the last update... otherwise in autoupdate the results became crazy...

 

[Balle Clorin]

Phone apps are a bit different. I use the w/f app, and it fluctuates between 0.05-0.08%, and I guess it is unweighted w/f. It's a bit fast unloaded but gets closer to 33.3 during play.

View attachment 364650

Comparison with NAK+test record:

View attachment 364656

On What turntable?

 

[Balle Clorin]

Denon 51F
On test records I get result similar to Thomas above

By the way the “Yellow “ app is crap, it measures before the speed is stable

 

[morillon]

View attachment 364705View attachment 364706Denon 51F
On test records I get result similar to Thomas above

By the way the “Yellow “ app is crap, it measures before the speed is stable

The construction description is a bit light, isn't it? from experience adding a non-symmetrical weight poses problems in this case... it "swings" easily

 

[Balle Clorin]

The construction description is a bit light, isn't it? from experience adding a non-symmetrical weight poses problems in this case... it "swings" easily

Not a problem here, I use a ring covering the spindle and center the phone center of gravity above the spindle.

 

[Thomas_A]

On What turntable?

That is mine...

 

[Bob from Florida]

View attachment 364705View attachment 364706Denon 51F
On test records I get result similar to Thomas above

By the way the “Yellow “ app is crap, it measures before the speed is stable

Which app do you recommend

 

[Balle Clorin]

Those I posted above. W/F from Philip Broder who also made the Yellow one, the other is RPM WOW, both Iphone

Android has a very good RPM app too

 

[Thomas_A]

Not a problem here, I use a ring covering the spindle and center the phone center of gravity above the spindle.

I have some problems centering the phone, never got a good one. What is your method exactly?

 

[Balle Clorin]

But your plot looks just fine..?
I use this poor inaccurate bubble level from ClearAudio that goes over the spindle, and rest the phone on top,adjust position for minimum wow.0.04% is the lowest I can get.

 

[morillon]

(what I call wow-rpm...it's of course th android version of "turntable speed"...but remains to be validated on a case-by-case basis depending on the phone... but this app offers a manual speed calibration, in comparison with another method.
as a reminder..
as long as the avg speed values are not too wrong...
the w&f values remain relatively consistent.. and therefore useful with these apps....)

 

[Thomas_A]

View attachment 364729But your plot looks just fine..?
I use this poor inaccurate bubble level from ClearAudio that goes over the spindle, and rest the phone on top,adjust position for minimum wow.0.04% is the lowest I can get.

Yes, it looks fine. Just that if I happen to center it better I get better results. I just don't get it perfect with the phone. Tried the other app as well. It looks ok, but a centering mechanism for the phone would be ideal.