ifi Zen Phono Review (phono stage)

[mike70]

What's this, is someone trying to break the internet?

??? ... excuse me but i don't understand

 

[Bob from Florida]

What's this, is someone trying to break the internet?

Jen already broke the internet.

 

[sx70nk]

Schiit Mani vs Zen Phono

Just to preempt my comment, I am a big fan of the site and trust Amir's measurements 100% - I am also no expert on what any of these measurements ACTUALLY mean. I just get the sense that testing is done objectively by someone extremely knowledgeable who does not try to sell me anything, and I take comfort in that.

Here is my own purely anecdotal observation regarding noise, after replacing the Mani with the Zen Phono two days ago. Amir's test may be pointing to other types of noise than what I am about to say, but the noise I am reporting on was very clearly audible: With the Mani and the volume turned up half way (and before playing the record), there was always an audible hiss coming from my speakers (or my headphones, when using the headphone port of my integrated amp, the Peachtree Nova 300). That noise was only there when playing records (& of course not using the built-in phono stage), otherwise with any digital signal fed into my pre-amp, I could crank up the volume to max and the speakers remained 100% silent. That noise is gone now, after switching in the Zen Phono pre-amp and using the exact same RCA cables (not the balanced port) that were used before. No idea why, just wanted to share this.

 

[TOR]

but the noise I am reporting on was very clearly audible: With the Mani and the volume turned up half way (and before playing the record), there was always an audible hiss coming from my speakers (or my headphones, when using the headphone port of my integrated amp, the Peachtree Nova 300). That noise was only there when playing records (& of course not using the built-in phono stage), otherwise with any digital signal fed into my pre-amp, I could crank up the volume to max and the speakers remained 100% silent. That noise is gone now, after switching in the Zen Phono pre-amp and using the exact same RCA cables (not the balanced port) that were used before. No idea why, just wanted to share this.

Did you check on Amirm's Mani2 review? There is a very prominent persistent 60 Hz Power supply noise where Zen Phono do not. I am not sure if this is what you hear from the Mani.

Once music start playing, it will drown out the power supply noise. According to Amirm measurement, the Mani should produce better quality sound (less distortion & noise, ie noise other than the 60 Hz hum) than Zen Phono.

 

[cgallery]

Can we get someone to record pops and ticks and show the spectrum?

I have a Keith Jarret album w/ a 4th side that is blank but grooved. Recorded two minutes, imported into Audacity, and did a a frequency analysis, is that what you wanted?

Cartridge is an Ortofon Super OM30, phono preamp is a Realistic 42-2109.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Can we get someone to record pops and ticks and show the spectrum?

I have 2 copies of Special EFX Double Feature because on track 3 side 2 of one of the copies there is a defect that resulted in a locked track that has a nice loud scratch sound once per rotation. The music playing at that point is at a reduce volume so it makes it a convenient place to get a spectrum recording of a loud “pop”. I recorded it with my spectrum app on my iPad at my usual seated position with the spectrum capturing the low and max peaks of just the locked groove. The low peaks is the music and the space between the low and high peaks is essentially the recording of the loud “pop”. The pop is widely distributed across the spectrum with the highest peak around 700 HZ. Hopefully this will give you some idea of the range of frequencies generated with a major “pop”.

 

[nothingman]

I have a Keith Jarret album w/ a 4th side that is blank but grooved. Recorded two minutes, imported into Audacity, and did a a frequency analysis, is that what you wanted?

Cartridge is an Ortofon Super OM30, phono preamp is a Realistic 42-2109.

I think that means you measured your stylus-in-groove noise floor for this particular record. It doesn’t tell us what a vinyl pop looks like.

I have 2 copies of Special EFX Double Feature because on track 3 side 2 of one of the copies there is a defect that resulted in a locked track that has a nice loud scratch sound once per rotation. The music playing at that point is at a reduce volume so it makes it a convenient place to get a spectrum recording of a loud “pop”. I recorded it with my spectrum app on my iPad at my usual seated position with the spectrum capturing the low and max peaks of just the locked groove. The low peaks is the music and the space between the low and high peaks is essentially the recording of the loud “pop”. The pop is widely distributed across the spectrum with the highest peak around 700 HZ. Hopefully this will give you some idea of the range of frequencies generated with a major “pop”.

Recorded at your seating position means we’re up against the performance of your whole audio chain and room. I think this is something that would really need to be done straight out of the tonearm leads or out of the phono preamp output (ideally one where we have measurements of the RIAA implementation).

I don’t mean to bash two people trying to help! Especially when I’m not knowledgeable enough in how to get the right measurement myself, but I don’t think these tell us what we’re hoping to figure out.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Recorded at your seating position means we’re up against the performance of your whole audio chain and room. I think this is something that would really need to be done straight out of the tonearm leads or out of the phono preamp output (ideally one where we have measurements of the RIAA implementation).

I don’t mean to bash two people trying to help! Especially when I’m not knowledgeable enough in how to get the right measurement myself, but I don’t think these tell us what we’re hoping to figure out.

At this time I do not have the electronics handy to do an electrical measurement. If I did it would be post phono preamp to allow for RIAA correction. While my technique is not perfect, it does show a relative difference between "pop" and no "pop". The "lighter" colored area is the "pop". The distribution shows impact at most frequencies.

 

[cgallery]

I think that means you measured your stylus-in-groove noise floor for this particular record. It doesn’t tell us what a vinyl pop looks like.

Well this side has never really been cleaned (I never play it) and there were small pops and ticks throughout the entire two minutes.

I have posted a five second excerpt here:

https://www.jpthien.com/temp/Record_2022_06_28_193739.751_empty-track_5s.wav

...take a listen and let me know if you want something else.

 

[anmpr1]

I think that means you measured your stylus-in-groove noise floor for this particular record. It doesn’t tell us what a vinyl pop looks like.

Whenever I've used Audacity for analog, a pop (or is it a click?) manifests as a brief vertical line much higher in amplitude than the music wave. I never checked out the frequency. By expanding the time function in Audacity it is easy to slice out pops, clicks, or ticks. Usually the redaction is not too noticeable in casual listening. Not like a pop which you always hear. It was a long time ago that I experimented, and I don't even remember why I did it.

I read somewhere, or someone told me, or I made it up, that in the days of analog, FM classical stations used open reel to tape records, for later broadcast. Then, if a pop or click was present, someone's job was to splice it out. I have no idea if that ever happened. With the quality of a lot of records, that might be very labor intensive. And unless the tape speed was at least 7ips, you'd think it would be pretty hard to splice out a short pop.

 

[Thomas_A]

Clicks and pops are rather broadband spectral contents and with falling energy with frequency. There is not one type though, depends on whether it is a "pop" or a "click".

 

[bracko]

Also measurements of iFi ZEN Phono
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...reamplifier-measurements&catid=414&Itemid=547

 

[bracko]

Honestly, this is a great phono preamp. It measures better than PS Audio Stellar at 6% of its price.

 

[reydelanada]

I have tested this phono stage against an audio research reference 2 in a quite well controlled enviroment. Levels matched, and switching from one to another by pressing one button of pre amp remote. The owner of the ifi zen, a good friend of mine,was with me, and he thought differences were going to be very little, as it happened with most of our Dac and other components tests we have done.

In this case, was really night and day. Music from ifi zen sounded dead, no dynamics, no separation, no air, when compared to The other phono stage. We were quite impressed to hear such a big difference.

I also tested an ASR phono basis and could not hear any major difference against the arc ref 2, but with the ifi zen in my system was like a different sport

 

[pma]

Can we get someone to record pops and ticks and show the spectrum?

Directly from Shure M35X cartridge:

Output from the phono preamp with 36dB (1kHz) gain:

 

[SMen]

I have tested this phono stage against an audio research reference 2 in a quite well controlled enviroment. Levels matched, and switching from one to another by pressing one button of pre amp remote. The owner of the ifi zen, a good friend of mine,was with me, and he thought differences were going to be very little, as it happened with most of our Dac and other components tests we have done.

In this case, was really night and day. Music from ifi zen sounded dead, no dynamics, no separation, no air, when compared to The other phono stage. We were quite impressed to hear such a big difference.

I also tested an ASR phono basis and could not hear any major difference against the arc ref 2, but with the ifi zen in my system was like a different sport

Just out of interest, was this using the highest level MM stage?

 

[Bob from Florida]

I have tested this phono stage against an audio research reference 2 in a quite well controlled enviroment. Levels matched, and switching from one to another by pressing one button of pre amp remote. The owner of the ifi zen, a good friend of mine,was with me, and he thought differences were going to be very little, as it happened with most of our Dac and other components tests we have done.

In this case, was really night and day. Music from ifi zen sounded dead, no dynamics, no separation, no air, when compared to The other phono stage. We were quite impressed to hear such a big difference.

I also tested an ASR phono basis and could not hear any major difference against the arc ref 2, but with the ifi zen in my system was like a different sport

From a 2010 review Absolute Sound - ARC specs.
None of the gains match the Zen settings. Can you go into more detail of your testing setup? How were levels matched and was this sighted versus unsighted listening. What cartridge was used and which gain setting was selected on the Reference 2 and the Zen. Also, the Reference 2 allows 3 different RIAA corrections - which one was selected? The maximum input ratings are impressive, but not specified at what gain setting. My understanding is the high gain inputs are FET while low gain is the 6H30. Most likely the low gain tube input for that kind of overload specs.

Specs & Pricing​

Audio Research Reference Phono 2 phono preamplifier

Frequency response: ±0.2dB of RIAA, 10Hz to 60kHz: 3dB points below 0.5Hz and above 300kHz
Distortion: .002% at 1.0V RMS 1kHz BAL output
Gain: Selectable 51dB (Low), 74dB (High) at 1kHz BAL; 45dB (Low), 68dB (High) at 1kHz SE (MC & MM compatible)
Input impedance: 47k Ohms and 100pF SE.
Additional selectable loads: 1000, 500, 200, 100, 50 ohms, and Custom Phono equalization: (Selectable) RIAA, Columbia, Decca.
Polarity: Non-inverting.
Output impedance: 200 ohms SE, 400 ohms balanced. Recommended load 50K–100K ohms and 100pF
Maximum input: 250mV RMS at 1kHz (680mV RMS at 10kHz)
Rated output: 0.5V RMS 10Hz to 20kHz, 100k Ohm load
Noise: 0.22uV equivalent input noise (High Gain) (65dB below 0.1mV 1kHz input)
Tube complement: (4) 6H30 dual triodes, plus (1 each) 6H30, 6550C in power supply
Dimensions: 19** x 7 x 15.5**
Weight: 27 lbs. net
Price: $12,000

AUDIO RESEARCH CORPORATION
3900 Annapolis Lane
North Plymouth, MN 55447
(763) 577-9700
www.audioresearch.com

 

[Bob from Florida]

I also tested an ASR phono basis and could not hear any major difference against the arc ref 2, but with the ifi zen in my system was like a different sport

Maybe not awake yet - but what does the above statement mean? I bolded and underlined the puzzling part.

 

[reydelanada]

Maybe not awake yet - but what does the above statement mean? I bolded and underlined the puzzling part.

 

[reydelanada]

From a 2010 review Absolute Sound - ARC specs.
None of the gains match the Zen settings. Can you go into more detail of your testing setup? How were levels matched and was this sighted versus unsighted listening. What cartridge was used and which gain setting was selected on the Reference 2 and the Zen. Also, the Reference 2 allows 3 different RIAA corrections - which one was selected? The maximum input ratings are impressive, but not specified at what gain setting. My understanding is the high gain inputs are FET while low gain is the 6H30. Most likely the low gain tube input for that kind of overload specs.

Specs & Pricing​

Audio Research Reference Phono 2 phono preamplifier

Frequency response: ±0.2dB of RIAA, 10Hz to 60kHz: 3dB points below 0.5Hz and above 300kHz
Distortion: .002% at 1.0V RMS 1kHz BAL output
Gain: Selectable 51dB (Low), 74dB (High) at 1kHz BAL; 45dB (Low), 68dB (High) at 1kHz SE (MC & MM compatible)
Input impedance: 47k Ohms and 100pF SE.
Additional selectable loads: 1000, 500, 200, 100, 50 ohms, and Custom Phono equalization: (Selectable) RIAA, Columbia, Decca.
Polarity: Non-inverting.
Output impedance: 200 ohms SE, 400 ohms balanced. Recommended load 50K–100K ohms and 100pF
Maximum input: 250mV RMS at 1kHz (680mV RMS at 10kHz)
Rated output: 0.5V RMS 10Hz to 20kHz, 100k Ohm load
Noise: 0.22uV equivalent input noise (High Gain) (65dB below 0.1mV 1kHz input)
Tube complement: (4) 6H30 dual triodes, plus (1 each) 6H30, 6550C in power supply
Dimensions: 19** x 7 x 15.5**
Weight: 27 lbs. net
Price: $12,000

AUDIO RESEARCH CORPORATION
3900 Annapolis Lane
North Plymouth, MN 55447
(763) 577-9700
www.audioresearch.com

MC Lyra escala capsule. Zen was both at 72 and 60db gain. I use 68db on my ref2 (high gain using rca output). I only use RIAA equ on my ref2, don’t use other records (Columbia or Deca).

I don’t understand about measures, but this two electronics are night and day for Music reproduction.