IEMs Single DD vs Multiple Drivers

[Ste_S]

Current trend in IEM design seems to be multiple drivers in the shell, with the more the better. The Simgot Supermix 4 has 1 DD + 1 BA + 1 Planar + 1 PZT, for example. If the tuning is the same as an IEM with just 1 DD, do these combinations offer anything more? Or in fact, are they actually worse given the complexity of the design?

I suspect you’re best off buying a 1 DD design with FR you like, and that gives a good seal in a shell you like the design off, and that fits in your price range; and that there’s no benefit to expensive multi-driver designs? But I have no evidence to prove this.

 

[Sebby]

Current trend in IEM design seems to be multiple drivers in the shell, with the more the better. The Simgot Supermix 4 has 1 DD + 1 BA + 1 Planar + 1 PZT, for example. If the tuning is the same as an IEM with just 1 DD, do these combinations offer anything more? Or in fact, are they actually worse given the complexity of the design?

I suspect you’re best off buying a 1 DD design with FR you like, and that gives a good seal in a shell you like the design off, and that fits in your price range; and that there’s no benefit to expensive multi-driver designs? But I have no evidence to prove this.

The multidriver is easier to tune, but has the disadvantage of revealing tonal inconsistencies. Also many "single DD" have the defect of having a poor extension/control of the highs (see Zero 2, etc...) and many compensate for this "defect" by using, for example, Balanced Armatures to recover the highs. To have an excellent "single DD" requires more engineering than many can afford to have. Sennheiser IE200/IE600/IE900 are "single DD" and have excellent extension on both sides of the FR (in fact the cheapest solution, IE200, still costs $150) and all 3 are perfectly tuned to taste. Another excellent "single DD" IEM (it actually has a balanced armature but which "strengthens" the mids) is the Dita Project M, but it also costs $400, so not exactly cheap.

 

[markanini]

If the tuning is the same as an IEM with just 1 DD

Reasonably, if a hybrid was tuned the same as a 1DD that would negate the point of a hybrid, to provide a tuning that a 1DD can't achieve. Other than that, I have an agnostic view about driver tech, it's all implementation dependent which means you can probably generalize too much about X driver config vs Y driver config and loose the bigger picture.

 

[mc.god]

In my opinion the biggest part of multi drivers\multi types iems is marketing, you cannot differentiate too much and scale up in prices if you only offer single DD models.
I don't negate that more drivers or different types may give some advantages like facilitate fine tuning, give more extension, control resonances, etc... but they also can do a big mess if the greater complexity is not well implemented and you only continue sticking more drivers into a cluttered tiny shell.

 

[Berwhale]

I suspect you’re best off buying a 1 DD design with FR you like, and that gives a good seal in a shell you like the design off, and that fits in your price range; and that there’s no benefit to expensive multi-driver designs? But I have no evidence to prove this.

Agreed, the multi-driver designs are just marketing in my experience.

 

[Ste_S]

The multidriver is easier to tune, but has the disadvantage of revealing tonal inconsistencies. Also many "single DD" have the defect of having a poor extension/control of the highs (see Zero 2, etc...) and many compensate for this "defect" by using, for example, Balanced Armatures to recover the highs. To have an excellent "single DD" requires more engineering than many can afford to have. Sennheiser IE200/IE600/IE900 are "single DD" and have excellent extension on both sides of the FR (in fact the cheapest solution, IE200, still costs $150) and all 3 are perfectly tuned to taste. Another excellent "single DD" IEM (it actually has a balanced armature but which "strengthens" the mids) is the Dita Project M, but it also costs $400, so not exactly cheap.

Sorry to pick on the Supermix 4 again, but given both are roughly Harman tuned, with one being a very cheap single DD, and the other being a multiple driver IEM, outside of the mild frequency differences, what would I be getting extra with the multi-driver Supermix 4?

 

[Madlop26]

I own:
Moondrop Chu II, (one driver $15)
Truthear x Crinacle Zero:RED (2 drivers $55)
THIEAUDIO Monarch MKII (9 drivers $1000),
All 3 Harman compliant, after extensive ABC testing, they sound pretty much the same; quiet great. The only difference I could find is in song with heavy subbass, The monarch can make you head shake.

 

[mc.god]

Sorry to pick on the Supermix 4 again, but given both are roughly Harman tuned, with one being a very cheap single DD, and the other being a multiple driver IEM, outside of the mild frequency differences, what would I be getting extra with the multi-driver Supermix 4?


View attachment 423382

Treble response of the supermix is more extendend, and this could be a choice, but also more uniform, with less dips-peaks, that could make the Wan'er sound "grainy"

 

[TurtlePaul]

I feel like dual driver should be easier to tune. However there are several models that prove that single can have good frequency response. I definitely feel like mixed drivers are good if the highs are going to be balanced armature since they suck at bass. One big downside of dual drivers is how wide the nozzles are. I have Truthear Zero:Red and I hardly use them due to nozzle width. I don’t get five* driver setups.

 

[staticV3]

All 3 Harman compliant

Just FYI, the Red and MKII have less ear gain than Harman:


Both are GRAS measurements from Resolve.

 

[Sebby]

Sorry to pick on the Supermix 4 again, but given both are roughly Harman tuned, with one being a very cheap single DD, and the other being a multiple driver IEM, outside of the mild frequency differences, what would I be getting extra with the multi-driver Supermix 4?


View attachment 423382

The Supermix, despite still having a Harman tuning, from the graphs you can see a better extension and control of the upper treble. I don't know how your ears are, but I still hear the 17,000 Hz very well and having the frequencies not only extended but well controlled for me makes all the difference in the world. Having more drivers allows you to level the frequency with much more ease and control. Nobody is saying that the single DD is not capable of having an excellent extension, but it is more difficult not only to have them, but also to have well-defined peaks and troughs. Either you call yourself Sennheiser that models the FR using the acoustics of the housing (this has high costs), or you insert many drivers each tuned to specific frequencies. The Multidriver is not Marketing but just one of the ways to achieve a result more easily.

 

[Madlop26]

Just FYI, the Red and MKII have less ear gain than Harman:
View attachment 423398

Both are GRAS measurements from Resolve.

You are right, the graph also shows the difference in the subbass.

 

[Sebby]

I own:
Moondrop Chu II, (one driver $15)
Truthear x Crinacle Zero:RED (2 drivers $55)
THIEAUDIO Monarch MKII (9 drivers $1000),
All 3 Harman compliant, after extensive ABC testing, they sound pretty much the same; quiet great. The only difference I could find is in song with heavy subbass, The monarch can make you head shake.

It takes a bit of imagination to say that they sound similar.
There are differences that go from 5db in the mid-bass to over 10db in the treble range.
By the way you can see the poor treble management of the CHU and the excellent management of the Monarch.

I repeat, there are "single DD" that do an excellent job in the treble, but it takes much more complicated solutions (see IE600)

 

[Madlop26]

It takes a bit of imagination to say that they sound similar.
There are differences that go from 5db in the mid-bass to over 10db in the treble range.
By the way you can see the poor treble management of the CHU and the excellent management of the Monarch.

I repeat, there are "single DD" that do an excellent job in the treble, but it takes much more complicated solutions (see IE600)

Yes there are differences, but the question is, how sure are you can hear those differences in the usual setting of enjoying music?, probably easy in a well-prepared blind test with perfect volume matching and so. but..... not too easy when you are listening to music at home just for enjoyment. Not being a trained listener, just an enthusiast; my only weapon is a continued sampling for months and months, and I have to tell you there is an insane variability, some days Monarch sounded quite superior but other The Red, even the Chu had its days. I concluded besides hardware there are other variables that can affect how your brain perceives the music, like mood, location, time, health. After many months I sit back and asked the question, is there any consistent meaningful difference in the quality of sound in this 3 EIMs that I can tell? the answer was no. Of course, other person like you may be able tell the difference easily, but this guy here cannot.

 

[Dreamfull]

The Supermix, despite still having a Harman tuning, from the graphs you can see a better extension and control of the upper treble. I don't know how your ears are, but I still hear the 17,000 Hz very well and having the frequencies not only extended but well controlled for me makes all the difference in the world. Having more drivers allows you to level the frequency with much more ease and control. Nobody is saying that the single DD is not capable of having an excellent extension, but it is more difficult not only to have them, but also to have well-defined peaks and troughs. Either you call yourself Sennheiser that models the FR using the acoustics of the housing (this has high costs), or you insert many drivers each tuned to specific frequencies. The Multidriver is not Marketing but just one of the ways to achieve a result more easily.

I myself find loving good airy treble very high in the FR range.

Just delving into IEMs and got the ZERO 2 to start, was impressed by clarity but they did felt "lifeless" just bass bangers, with 5 PEQ, 4 of those to tune the high and one to tame the bass they sound pretty good.

Was currently waiting for the Blue 2s to come out, but seeing your comment made me really think because I aswell hear up to 17k(used be even a bit higher, maybe those Zeros fall of early I might still be able to pick 18.5k-19k like before).

I even made a thread about either to get Supermix 4 or wait for the Blues. Maybe the human ear is still the best measuring tool taking into account all those mics in the high FR range have inconsistent results, and not everyone being able to hear so high, just can't feel this amazing airiness and liveliness of songs (mostly electronical music get this high with clarity).

What's your subjective opinion, what should I get in this situation, I have heard some amazing systems in 2-way speaker configuration, but IEMs seems to be this crazy voodoo magic, that even no IEM sound the same to two different human ears.

P.s tunning the Zero's to the Harman curve made my ears bleed.

I used the 5128 - SoundGuys target with custom PEQ to stay as close as possible to the target, autoEQ wasn't able to to do it.

.

 

[Heinrich]

Current trend in IEM design seems to be multiple drivers in the shell, with the more the better. The Simgot Supermix 4 has 1 DD + 1 BA + 1 Planar + 1 PZT, for example. If the tuning is the same as an IEM with just 1 DD, do these combinations offer anything more? Or in fact, are they actually worse given the complexity of the design?

I suspect you’re best off buying a 1 DD design with FR you like, and that gives a good seal in a shell you like the design off, and that fits in your price range; and that there’s no benefit to expensive multi-driver designs? But I have no evidence to prove this.

Very good and easy question. The single DD is as good today, no use for multi <xyz> driver designs. 25$$ is the mark, right? Objectively speaking, the simple plain excellence is there, and so the industry undermined future profit; I like it

Subjective factors as 'collector's items' will take their roles. A new battle ground for fans. But that was it.

 

[RogerSmith]

If the tuning is the same as an IEM with just 1 DD, do these combinations offer anything more?

IF the tuning were the same, there would not be any other benefit (assuming equally low distortion on both driver settings). But the problem with single DD IEMs is, although they made a lot of progress, that they usually have swings in the treble, which also cannot be EQed properly.

You give the perfect example yourself, the Wan'er has huge peaks around 8-12 kHz, which several good multidriver IEMs manage to evade. So the tuning of a single DD is more complicated (no crossover) and can only be done to a certain extend.

View attachment 423382

 

[Sebby]

I myself find loving good airy treble very high in the FR range.

Just delving into IEMs and got the ZERO 2 to start, was impressed by clarity but they did felt "lifeless" just bass bangers, with 5 PEQ, 4 of those to tune the high and one to tame the bass they sound pretty good.

Was currently waiting for the Blue 2s to come out, but seeing your comment made me really think because I aswell hear up to 17k(used be even a bit higher, maybe those Zeros fall of early I might still be able to pick 18.5k-19k like before).

I even made a thread about either to get Supermix 4 or wait for the Blues. Maybe the human ear is still the best measuring tool taking into account all those mics in the high FR range have inconsistent results, and not everyone being able to hear so high, just can't feel this amazing airiness and liveliness of songs (mostly electronical music get this high with clarity).

What's your subjective opinion, what should I get in this situation, I have heard some amazing systems in 2-way speaker configuration, but IEMs seems to be this crazy voodoo magic, that even no IEM sound the same to two different human ears.

P.s tunning the Zero's to the Harman curve made my ears bleed.

I used the 5128 - SoundGuys target with custom PEQ to stay as close as possible to the target, autoEQ wasn't able to to do it.

.

I also have the Zero 2 and they are IEMs that tolerate E.Q. very well but without E.Q. I find them dull and with a serious lack of extension of the high frequencies (very difficult to fix because it is not enough to just raise it). I am not a fan of the Harman curve because I find it tiring and claustrophobic. In my opinion an Upgrade of Zero 2 could be Simgot (in my ears at the moment I have the EW300 that I use for gaming because I find them quite balanced and ultra comfortable), but if you had Supermix in mind, in my opinion it is not worth the effort. In my opinion the EW 300 are better with a slightly fuller sound without sacrificing too much of the highs. But from what I understood from your tastes (maybe I'm wrong) in my opinion you make a huge leap with Sennheiser IE200. I liked them so much that I got the IE600 (it's a more excited and refined IE200), because IE200 they handle the frequencies from 5000 to 15,000 Hz well (as the price goes up, it's exactly the area where you can hear the differences). Between Supermix and IE200, I'll go with the IE200 all the time. I wouldn't waste time waiting for the Blue2, because apart from a few slight changes, there are no real differences and they all look the same now. For IEMs under $100, I now have my favorite, which is the Rose Technics Star City 5 Pro (they overdid it with the imagination), which also lacks a bit of air, but handles everything else wonderfully and makes up for it (I have preferences but not in a Taliban way). Artti T10 is better in the treble extension but worse in everything else, including comfort. Unfortunately IEMs with good high frequency management and air under $100 I have never heard or seen (looking at the graphs). You don't need to spend astronomical figures to get a good result, but you won't get it by spending very low figures for obvious reasons (the time to tune an IEM well has a cost and it's not enough to apply some filters on the nozzle to get it and no intelligent person would sell a product with certain qualities at too low prices). As much as technology has advanced and even a VW Golf R is very fast (like a luxury sports car from 20 years ago), to have very high performance you can't look at popular prices and say, as many do even in this Topic, that already with $25 you already have the best you can have, it's because they are subjectivists who don't know they are yet. The data are there...

 

[Dreamfull]

I also have the Zero 2 and they are IEMs that tolerate E.Q. very well but without E.Q. I find them dull and with a serious lack of extension of the high frequencies (very difficult to fix because it is not enough to just raise it). I am not a fan of the Harman curve because I find it tiring and claustrophobic. In my opinion an Upgrade of Zero 2 could be Simgot (in my ears at the moment I have the EW300 that I use for gaming because I find them quite balanced and ultra comfortable), but if you had Supermix in mind, in my opinion it is not worth the effort. In my opinion the EW 300 are better with a slightly fuller sound without sacrificing too much of the highs. But from what I understood from your tastes (maybe I'm wrong) in my opinion you make a huge leap with Sennheiser IE200. I liked them so much that I got the IE600 (it's a more excited and refined IE200), because IE200 they handle the frequencies from 5000 to 15,000 Hz well (as the price goes up, it's exactly the area where you can hear the differences). Between Supermix and IE200, I'll go with the IE200 all the time. I wouldn't waste time waiting for the Blue2, because apart from a few slight changes, there are no real differences and they all look the same now. For IEMs under $100, I now have my favorite, which is the Rose Technics Star City 5 Pro (they overdid it with the imagination), which also lacks a bit of air, but handles everything else wonderfully and makes up for it (I have preferences but not in a Taliban way). Artti T10 is better in the treble extension but worse in everything else, including comfort. Unfortunately IEMs with good high frequency management and air under $100 I have never heard or seen (looking at the graphs). You don't need to spend astronomical figures to get a good result, but you won't get it by spending very low figures for obvious reasons (the time to tune an IEM well has a cost and it's not enough to apply some filters on the nozzle to get it and no intelligent person would sell a product with certain qualities at too low prices). As much as technology has advanced and even a VW Golf R is very fast (like a luxury sports car from 20 years ago), to have very high performance you can't look at popular prices and say, as many do even in this Topic, that already with $25 you already have the best you can have, it's because they are subjectivists who don't know they are yet. The data are there...

Thanks for the detailed reply! I'll analyze a bit more, but just take a look at the pre-production Blue 2, overall it looks like to be differently tuned than what they had previously. I'm okay to spend 150$ once, but cant really make it as a hobby and buy left and right sets, till i find my taste. Pretty much got a bullet to nail it.


Out of curiosity give this PEQ for the Zero 2s a try, i have tried to stay as close as possible to 5128 SoundGuys target
Preamp: -5.9 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 1.000
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 7300 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 4.100
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 9400 Hz Gain 6.0 dB Q 2.300
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 11460 Hz Gain -5.6 dB Q 3.900
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 15700 Hz Gain 5.9 dB Q 1.500

 

[mc.god]

As much as technology has advanced and even a VW Golf R is very fast (like a luxury sports car from 20 years ago), to have very high performance you can't look at popular prices and say, as many do even in this Topic, that already with $25 you already have the best you can have, it's because they are subjectivists who don't know they are yet. The data are there...

Well, that data show that IE200 have much treble and upper-mids emphasis than that target curve while Zero 2 appears much more compliant

So strictly talking, preferring IE200 is more subjective than objective, and nothing wrong with it.
(p.s. I don't own Zero 2 and my preferred iems are Sonus that also have more emphasis in that region and less bass)