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I2S via HDMI pinout wiring.

gvl

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PLL is a method to lock onto incoming signal and extract clock from it, think a big flywheel that maintains its rotational speed. It’s used for spdif inputs. ASynchronicity happens later, lookup ASRC.
 

JohnYang1997

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DPLL/PLL and ASRC are actually kind of the opposite of working. It's really confusing when people talk about it because most of the time people, even many designers of products don't have idea how it actually works.
PLL extracts clock/using(purify) the original one. ASRC swaps clock(using a new clean clock).

The clocking in ESS chips is pretty advanced. It has a digital implementation of PLL with internal variables. And it uses the result of the digital PLL to tell the ASRC the speed of the original clock so it takes in samples at the rate of the samples fed in so the system don't stall or play at weird speed. Essentially it's the ASRC that does the actual jitter reduction, the digital PLL just supports the operation.

Idk what the original context was. Just sharing some information.
 
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gallantus

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PLL is a method to lock onto incoming signal and extract clock from it, think a big flywheel that maintains its rotational speed. It’s used for spdif inputs. ASynchronicity happens later, lookup ASRC.
Only for spdif? It affects the signal on my USB too, when I set it too low with high sampling rate signals (like DSD), I get static noise.

Anyways, I will research it later.
 

gvl

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I suppose it can be used with USB too and perhaps this is what’s happening on ESS DACs but in case of async USB interfaces the clock is clean so PLL is not needed.
 
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gallantus

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DPLL/PLL and ASRC are actually kind of the opposite of working. It's really confusing when people talk about it because most of the time people, even many designers of products don't have idea how it actually works.
PLL extracts clock/using(purify) the original one. ASRC swaps clock(using a new clean clock).

The clocking in ESS chips is pretty advanced. It has a digital implementation of PLL with internal variables. And it uses the result of the digital PLL to tell the ASRC the speed of the original clock so it takes in samples at the rate of the samples fed in so the system don't stall or play at weird speed. Essentially it's the ASRC that does the actual jitter reduction, the digital PLL just supports the operation.

Idk what the original context was. Just sharing some information.
Can you explain what does adjusting the PLL speed do?
 
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gallantus

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Bad news. Got everything in. The HDMI I2S works flawlessly for PCM, but for DSD, tons of static, tried adjusting the DPLL, no luck. I am not sure if the issue is with the HDMI audio extractor or with my DAC. :(

I did manage to get a full refund for the HDMI audio extractor but did not have to return it though.

Now my priority is to figure out if the HDMI I2S transporting DSD on my DAC is broken.

My DAC has the following inputs:
BNC
USB
Coaxial
Optical
AES/EBU
Ethernet I2S
HDMI I2S.

So far, I know that the USB (PCM, DSD, DoP), optical (PCM), coaxial (PCM), and HDMI I2S (PCM) works on my DAC.

But need to test the below to see if they all work on my DAC:
HDMI I2S (DSD)
Optical (DoP)
Coaxial (DoP)
BNC (PCM)
BNC (DoP)
AES/EBU (PCM)
AES/EBU (DoP)
Ethernet I2S (DSD)
Ethernet I2S (PCM)

How the heck do you all test your DAC's input? Surely, not everyone has all the equipment for every input.
 
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gvl

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I lost understanding of what you’re trying to accomplish.
 
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gallantus

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I lost understanding of what you’re trying to accomplish.
The goal has changed. From extracting DSD from HDMI to making sure all the inputs of my DAC is actually working like it supposed to.
 

gvl

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The goal has changed. From extracting DSD from HDMI to making sure all the inputs of my DAC is actually working like it supposed to.

Why can’t you just enjoy the music without this knowledge?
 
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gallantus

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Why can’t you just enjoy the music without this knowledge?
OCD man. Does one not want to know that their product is in full working condition? If not, claim warranty.
 

linger63

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Bad news. Got everything in. The HDMI I2S works flawlessly for PCM, but for DSD, tons of static, tried adjusting the DPLL, no luck. I am not sure if the issue is with the HDMI audio extractor or with my DAC. :(

I did manage to get a full refund for the HDMI audio extractor but did not have to return it though.

Now my priority is to figure out if the HDMI I2S transporting DSD on my DAC is broken.


So far, I know that the USB (PCM, DSD, DoP), optical (PCM), coaxial (PCM), and HDMI I2S (PCM) works on my DAC.

What DAC are you using?
I am guessing its I2S pin assignments simply don't match up with your extractors.

For I2S the extractor works as a slave with hard settings.
Your DAC is the Master and some brands (e.g. Topping) offer adjustable i2S settings in their Setup Menu.
Settings include Channel ID (L/R get switched) and DSD Flag (which results in noise when wrong)

Your DAC's I2S settings should be shown in the User Manual.

Your extractors settings can be found from the Seller you bought it from.
They mostly look like this I believe........

1631764613284.png


If you have no success simply buy a DoP capable extractor instead and utilise a S/PDIF input (provided your DAC can handle it)
Tip...........If you do manage to get sound but channels are still reversed you could simply swap the DAC's analog out cables around!!!!

The very informative Site that started it all for me!!!!!!
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...sical-sacds-through-an-outboard-dac/#comments
 
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gallantus

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What DAC are you using?
I am guessing its I2S pin assignments simply don't match up with your extractors.

For I2S the extractor works as a slave with hard settings.
Your DAC is the Master and some brands (e.g. Topping) offer adjustable i2S settings in their Setup menu.
Settings include Channel ID (L/R get switched) and DSD Flag (which results in noise when wrong)

If you have no success simply buy a DoP capable extractor and utilise a S/PDIF input instead (provided your DAC can handle it)


The pinout configuration of the HDMI is correct because PCM over I2S works. And for DSD, it also works but has a lot of static, so I know it for sure it's not pin assignment.

The issue has to be either the extractor is defective or my DAC is defective. I am now more concern about my $1,500 DAC being defective than extracting audio from HDMI. I am going to try find another source to test my DAC's HDMI I2S with DSD.

I have a LKS MH-DA004.
 

linger63

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The pinout configuration of the HDMI is correct because PCM over I2S works. And for DSD, it also works but has a lot of static, so I know it for sure it's not pin assignment.

The issue has to be either the extractor is defective or my DAC is defective. I am now more concern about my $1,500 DAC being defective than extracting audio from HDMI. I am going to try find another source to test my DAC's HDMI I2S with DSD.

I have a LKS MH-DA004.

Looking at page 4 of your DAC's User Manual it does appear that HDMI I2S pinout settings are different than your extractors.
Maybe you get PCM because Pin 14 is set to PCM Mode.
Did you confirm PCM via I2S did not have reversed channels?
It may be possible to set Pin 14 to DSD Mode but I would guess some communication with LKS would be in order.

Good Luck
 
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gallantus

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Looking at page 4 of your DAC's User Manual it appears that I2S pinout settings are different than your extractors.
Maybe you get PCM because Pin 14 is set to PCM Mode.
Did you confirm PCM did not have reversed channels?
It may be possible to set Pin 14 to DSD Mode but I would guess some communication with LKS would be in order.

Good Luck
The pin out is correct, I rewired it and it was confirmed by LKS. See my first post on this thread.
 

gvl

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The pinout configuration of the HDMI is correct because PCM over I2S works. And for DSD, it also works but has a lot of static, so I know it for sure it's not pin assignment.

The issue has to be either the extractor is defective or my DAC is defective. I am now more concern about my $1,500 DAC being defective than extracting audio from HDMI. I am going to try find another source to test my DAC's HDMI I2S with DSD.

I have a LKS MH-DA004.

LKS can sell you a USB to SPDIF converter with I2S outputs. Speaking of rabbit holes…
 

gvl

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Very expensive to test the inputs of my DAC :facepalm: gonna see if I can find a cheaper solution.

Cheaper may again yield ambiguity. At least with the DDC from the same manufacturer there’s more certainty, especially if pinouts match. I’d just get the DoP deembedder linked earlier to solve the original problem and call it a day.
 
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gallantus

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Cheaper may again yield ambiguity. At least with the DDC from the same manufacturer there’s more certainty, especially if pinouts match. I’d just get the DoP deembedder linked earlier to solve the original problem and call it a day.
Agreed. But the current problem is of priority and concern :(

Perhaps I have no choice but to get this unit if I am going down this rabbit hole.
 
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