I will NEVER buy a neutral speaker again!

[Pareto Pragmatic]

After trying what would be considered a very neutral speaker, never again. Nope.

Also, on measurements. Before using measurements I set up speakers in "the good spot" and eq'd 125hz down 2db at higher volumes. After extensive measurements for a couple of years, I now set speakers in the same spot and eq -2db at 125hz at higher volumes. So what good was all that work if I get to the same place as I got by ear? None good?

So that's my take.

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Ok, I won't buy another neutral speaker, most likely, since I very much like my Sierra LXs. Were I to buy another pair of speakers, I would go bright, since my hearing is going with age, and in a few years that will just be worse.

As for EQ, what I said is true... but.

My room is now much more controlled, I now know exactly at what SPL my floor starts bouncing at 30hz and how that affects other modes, and I know how various toe in angles affect room modes differently. So I can get better performance from my AV speakers which are not in "the spot". My sub for AV is much better integrated. I can also dial in the 1k-3k region with the LXs, giving more elevation or less, through toe angle. I know that moving my speakers 4"/10cm forward or back is pretty much the same as using "loudness" on a receiver (yes, even for treble, odd room and speaker position). And I know a lot more, giving me the options of doing whatever I want in my room to get whatever effect I am looking for, sound wise. And I definitely know the "why" for all those options.

The only downside to all that measurement work is that I am now hearing more in terms of frequency response, and so I am even more picky than I was before. Which was pretty picky, even accepting equipment limitations. And I can still enjoy our (and my wife's beloved) modified Heresies for music and not just AV, so not really all that much of a downside.

I didn't want to troll ASR for more than half a post, but I thought some might enjoy the ride, short as it was.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

 

[gwing]

There is no law that says you have to actually like 'neutral'

 

[mhardy6647]

The Neutral is the Enemy of the Good ... (?)

 

[gwing]

The Neutral is the Enemy of the Good ... (?)

But also "the good is the enemy of the perfect" . And just possibly the perfect could be friend of the neutral.

 

[mhardy6647]

But also "the good is the enemy of the perfect" . And just possibly the perfect could be friend of the neutral.

I'll stay neutral on that point.

 

[Ron Texas]

Neutral in a motor vehicle means you don't go anywhere.

 

[Gregss]

Well, between personal tastes, personal hearing responses, room boundary issues and room size variations, there is a real need to have tone controls.
Changing speakers for adjustments, is expensive and so much harder. FWIW.

 

[rank]

No speaker is "neutral".

 

[Ruhled]

Toe-in affects room modes? Do you have measurements of this?

 

[Tell]

Neutral speakers is a good starting point.

 

[Todd68]

A measured flat response in no way guarantees satisfaction. My preference is for a boost in bass response more than the Harmon curve, and slightly rolled off highs. Though I found the speakers design, tweeter implementation and quality is most important for getting the balance of sounding great with plenty of treble response and detail without being overly aggressive or cause fatigue. I’m not a fan of trying to EQ above SUB frequencies, so I needed to try a few different speaker types and models to find something I am satisfied with.

It’s about personal preference, measurements help, but aren’t the end all be all when it comes to actually enjoying your system. I wish it were that easy.

 

[Sacha]

 

[Todd68]

View attachment 389767

Instead of this, If want to criticize what I wrote why not just do it? Or what exactly is this supposed to add to the thread?

 

[TylerR]

I bought a set of JBL 3622n's this week, and I far prefer them with no EQ and far from flat. Adding subwoofers will only make them closer to perfect.

 

[Galliardist]

The Sierra LX is actually a well measuring speaker. I'd be interested to know what it was that didn't work for you.

Re brightness and aging. As someone who's gone through an accelerated hearing loss at high frequencies through a couple of years on painkillers, since real life can't be made brighter, your system doesn't have to be either. A bright system will still sound bright until your hearing loss gets below 8kHz or even lower, and by that time it hardly matters anyway: or compensation will be built into your hearing aids.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

I totally forgot about this post.

Toe-in affects room modes? Do you have measurements of this?

My room is actually two rooms with partial walls, and connects to other spaces in the house. Lots of angles. If I point the speakers to the "short corners" I get boost at 60, long corners more like 90. If I point them more "out" of the main listening space (direct or more first reflections into the other parts of the first floor and upstairs), things change again.

Also, my floor bounces at 30hz + strongly at the harmonics. It's a drum. So if I go short corner/60 boost, that puts more energy into my floor and it goes crazy at a lower SPL. And that will also kick in my heating ducts at 100hz sooner. Be glad you don't have a cupped floor firing bass up at the ceiling.

Also, about half of the sound "escapes" (-10db in the kitchen, top of stairs). And changing toe can send more or less out of the room. Which means it acts differently.

If I have time later I might be able to find some measures. But busy days right now, so no promise. I need to find white noise comparisons, which I am sure I have saved at some point.

There is no law that says you have to actually like 'neutral'

But I do. I eq neutral (not really flat given my room issues, but flatish) to 2k, then a bit of roll off, leaving a bit of a bump 10k-15k because my hearing is shot.

I just don't see myself worrying about getting something in the future I already have.

I also like turning the eq off at lower volumes and letting my V shaped room sound act like a loudness control. So roughly 58dB at 10 feet from the speakers for no EQ, then EQ a must over 60. Guess when my floor really starts to bounce?

The Sierra LX is actually a well measuring speaker. I'd be interested to know what it was that didn't work for you.

Well, 2 of the grill magnets rattle a bit. Other than that, they are ideal for my room and my goals. I think they are one of the best speakers, and certainly one of the best value for money speakers on the market. They just play everything well, and the bass is very controlled.

It’s about personal preference, measurements help, but aren’t the end all be all when it comes to actually enjoying your system. I wish it were that easy.

Yep. But having never heard neutralish in a room, the only way to know is to get there. I got there, and like it. Not always, not only, but I do like it.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Were I to buy another pair of speakers, I would go bright, since my hearing is going with age, and in a few years that will just be worse.

Age related acronyms. Listed in order of occurrence.

CRS - Can’t Remember Shit

CHS - Can’t Hear Shit

CRHS - Can’t Remember Hearing Shit

 

[Keith_W]

I read the original post a couple of times and I did not see an actual reason why you don't like neutral speakers. So what is the issue?

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

I read the original post a couple of times and I did not see an actual reason why you don't like neutral speakers. So what is the issue?

It's not a like/dislike issue. One pair is enough, because neutral is neutral in my book.

Now, if I ran a second set of speakers in the same room, but at a different location, I would want a different dispersion pattern most likely. And I am sure I could get a bit better attack with compression drivers. I'm not saying there are NO differences between neutral speakers. Just that spending money to get such slight differences doesn't make sense for me. And that I have no desire to further explore how neutral speakers sound in my room.