• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

How to Measure Magnepan LRS

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,915
Likes
16,746
Location
Monument, CO
Complex numbers can be expressed as real and imaginary parts (vector) or as magnitude and phase (polar).
 

mac

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
94
Likes
314
Location
Seattle Area
If anyone here is concerned that the LRS will be shown to be lacking "measurement-wise", I'd suggest worrying more about the distortion results we'll see below 200-300 hz....even at 86db....I'm betting it won't be pretty...
Right.
 

bunkbail

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
522
Likes
669
I personally never had any experience with dipole/open baffle/omnidirectional speakers like these but reading from other's experiences from many forums elsewhere it seems like these kinds of speakers are benefiting the most from full-range digital room correction. Would you consider to do the test with Dirac on these LRS speakers, @amirm?
 

abhijitnath

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2020
Messages
44
Likes
15
The problem is that if they're difficult to measure for knippel, they're hard to measure for dirac. And if your measurement is inaccurate, so is the correction. I don't know the theoretical answer, I'm just trying to think about it logically.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,708
Likes
241,452
Location
Seattle Area
Would you consider to do the test with Dirac on these LRS speakers, @amirm?
I don't think I will have enough time for such extensive testing but if so, yes.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,708
Likes
241,452
Location
Seattle Area
The problem is that if they're difficult to measure for knippel, they're hard to measure for dirac. And if your measurement is inaccurate, so is the correction. I don't know the theoretical answer, I'm just trying to think about it logically.
It is not the same issue for Dirac as it is not trying to compute the soundfield like NFS is.
 

tjf

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
109
Likes
91
Location
Silicon Valley, CA, USA
It is not the same issue for Dirac as it is not trying to compute the soundfield like NFS is.

And do you think correction for the near + far field responses for the LRS, or indeed any dipole speaker, might be a tough task for Dirac, ARC, etc., etc., ?
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,708
Likes
241,452
Location
Seattle Area
And do you think correction for the near + far field responses for the LRS, or indeed any dipole speaker, might be a tough task for Dirac, ARC, etc., etc., ?
It certainly presents a different response to it. How well it handles that, I don't know until I try it.
 

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,915
Likes
16,746
Location
Monument, CO
Because of the back wave any far-field response is hugely dependent upon the room placement and treatment. Not sure trying to correct for measurements is worth the effort.

The biggest problem room correction programs seem to have IME is the reflected wave can be fairly large and introduces comb filtering room correction programs will try to correct. Sometimes they go overboard; another reason to restrict correction to the bass region.
 

RayDunzl

Grand Contributor
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
13,250
Likes
17,200
Location
Riverview FL
And do you think correction for the near + far field responses for the LRS, or indeed any dipole speaker, might be a tough task for Dirac, ARC, etc., etc., ?


I don't try to correct nearfield. That's not where I listen.

It wouldn't seem to present much of a problem at the listening position here at Neverland East...

JBL LSR 308 vs MartinLogan reQuest using AcourateDRC and a miniDSP OpenDRC-DI

1599493687831.png 1599493722185.png 1599493840206.png
 
Last edited:

RayDunzl

Grand Contributor
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
13,250
Likes
17,200
Location
Riverview FL
Because of the back wave any far-field response is hugely dependent upon the room placement and treatment. Not sure trying to correct for measurements is worth the effort.

The biggest problem room correction programs seem to have IME is the reflected wave can be fairly large and introduces comb filtering room correction programs will try to correct. Sometimes they go overboard; another reason to restrict correction to the bass region.


I see a dip at 215Hz in the Martin Logan response that I attribute to the wall behind the speakers: The speakers are about 46" from the wall behind.

1599494064199.png


The dip is very narrow and falls between a G# and A with 440Hz tuning, so...

---

It surprised me to see a similar dip (Red) in the measure of the JBL LSR 308 (located next to the ML)

1599494842378.png
 
Last edited:

LTig

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
5,846
Likes
9,599
Location
Europe
I see a dip at 215Hz in the Martin Logan response that I attribute to the wall behind the speakers:

View attachment 81815

It surprised me to see a similar dip (Red) in the measure of the JBL LSR 308 (located next to the ML)

View attachment 81819
At 215 Hz the LSR308 still radiates omnidirectional. If it's at the same location you should expect a similar dip.
 

tjf

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
109
Likes
91
Location
Silicon Valley, CA, USA
Yeah, my bad on the nearfield thing...I should have just been dubious of Dirac, etc., doing correction for the far field response for dipoles....

"The biggest problem room correction programs seem to have IME is the reflected wave can be fairly large and introduces comb filtering room correction programs will try to correct. Sometimes they go overboard; another reason to restrict correction to the bass region."

I wonder about the Steinway/Lyngdorf approach of using their own boundary loaded/dependent speakers + "room perfect" correction DSP to deal the reflected (low freq.) wave to clear up boundary comb-filtering effects, to sim "RFZ" (reflection-free-zone) in-room performance??? (Steinway system concept posted previously on ASR back in March)
 

MZKM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
4,251
Likes
11,557
Location
Land O’ Lakes, FL
I see a dip at 215Hz in the Martin Logan response that I attribute to the wall behind the speakers: The speakers are about 46" from the wall behind.
Maybe its different because it’s a dipole, but for monopole speakers the SBIR from the front wall will occur at 1/4 the wavelength (measured at the baffle), so 46” would be ~70Hz.

My speaker baffles are ~2ft from the front wall and I indeed have a dip ~140Hz.
 

RayDunzl

Grand Contributor
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
13,250
Likes
17,200
Location
Riverview FL

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,915
Likes
16,746
Location
Monument, CO
Maybe its different because it’s a dipole, but for monopole speakers the SBIR from the front wall will occur at 1/4 the wavelength (measured at the baffle), so 46” would be ~70Hz.

My speaker baffles are ~2ft from the front wall and I indeed have a dip ~140Hz.

The back wave of a dipole is launched inverted with respect to the front wave, moving to the half-wave point for cancellation.
 
Top Bottom