Horns - Necessary to complete the Audiophile Journey?

[Inner Space]

That sounds like even more fun, and possibly profitable if you buy right.

I did OK with a couple of old Mini Coopers. Pride of place was a 1977 Bentley T2 - IMO the most beautiful sedan ever made. Drives great, and cost less than the Coopers.

 

[JohnBooty]

I wonder what aspect of the reproduction most contributed to that "holy smokes" reaction?
Was it the soundstaging that gave you the feeling the band was right there in front of you?
Or the FR/timber of the instruments that made them sound real?
All of the above?

Yeah, it's impossible to say. I'd need to listen to the material on a variety of systems to even have a guess. All my fleeting experience tells me is that one observer had one unquantifiable subjective impression on one system in one room on one given day using one piece of program material. Says nothing about what was responsible for what. Could have even been wishful thinking on my part, because a few friends had told me, "you need to hear this room" haha.

I have never had an in the head listening experience with any speakers.

I would agree - I said that for me narrow dispersion speakers start to "resemble" a headphones experience as the dispersion narrows more and more. They would of course never exactly duplicate a headphone experience for a few reasons.

 

[MattHooper]

Maybe it's just time for the audiophile community to stop parroting all the BS that's been repeated for years.
If they really prefer a little fart box, monkey coffin like a LS3/5A they deserve the likes of Synergistic Research stealing their wallets.

As an owner of Spendor S3/5As, I feel mortally wounded. ;-)

 

[watchnerd]

Here are the measurements for the newish La Scala AL5:

Those are some pretty wild peaks and valleys.....


Resonance decay:

Source:

https://www.hifinews.com/content/klipsch-la-scala-al5-loudspeaker-lab-report

 

[watchnerd]

As an owner of Spendor S3/5As, I feel mortally wounded. ;-)

I've always wanted a pair.

 

[Sal1950]

Here are the measurements for the newish La Scala AL5:

Prices have gotten really brutal lately.
Look for a mint set of used older models and add your choice of DRC.
I think you'd be way ahead SQ wise.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Beautiful-...733481?hash=item2aebfb2de9:g:dbkAAOSwSRRe-6vi

 

[amirm]

I thought we had a member in Dallas with some 4367's.....

He sold those and upgraded to JBL M2.

 

[Bjorn]

The advantage of horn loaded bass is considerably lower modulation distortion. It's very audible if you've decent control over low frequency resonances.

In order to compete (audibly) with a well designed horn loaded 15" driver, you basically need a stack of 3-4 15" drivers in fairly large vented boxes, which obviously cost much more, need more amplifier power and isn't smaller. I've done the comparisons a few times.

 

[Absolute]

He sold those and upgraded to JBL M2.

What happened after that? He's gone

 

[Frank Dernie]

I said that for me narrow dispersion speakers start to "resemble" a headphones experience as the dispersion narrows more and more.

That is what I take issue with, in my situation.
I am sufficiently far from my speakers that even if I move well off axis I am still within 10deg of on axis.
I find that the narrow directionality of my speakers is beneficial in accurately playing back my recordings.
As the dispersion gets wider it may get "nicer" for some, if the off axis response is even enough, but it gets less and less accurate to my recordings and this is obvious.
Some people say they like euphonic colourations and others point out that it is all very well but using equipment to add couration is wrong since it adds equally to all recordings, whether they benefit or not. I agree with the latter point.
I quite agree that wide dispersion is important if you listen in the near field, where small movements are big changes in angle and the reflections won't be a big part of the sound field.
In my situation it does sound nice, I really enjoyed my Apogee Divas, but I eventually accepted the latter view that if my room acoustics was too much overlaid onto my playback it sounded less correct with my own recordings so it followed (to me) that however nice it sounded it was less accurate on bought recordings.

I realise my situation is different to many so what is most accurate in my situation (IMO) will not suit everybody but equally clearly (to me) what is suited to near field listening is no good in here.
As and example the only Genelecs that they themselves recommend for mid field listening at my distance are their biggest ones, all their others have too wide directivity. IMO Genelec are experienced experts and I easily understand why they make this recommendation.

 

[anmpr1]

So... my re-immersion into the hifi hobby was actually catalyzed by the acquisition of a pair of 1974 vintage Cornies...

..."Heritage Klipsch" products, but they are deeply flawed products. The deepest 'flaw', to me, is a harshness and aggressiveness that can render some recordings unbearable (again -- to me).

LaScalas, by comparison, are essentially bass free and have been famously likened by Tom Brennan to Sawzalls...

...the best placement options for most of the heritage Klipsch loudspeakers is face down on the floor, if placement in someone else's domicile isn't practical.

a) Can you cite a brand of circa mid-70s loudspeaker that was not flawed, deeply or otherwise? In any case, current Klipsch heritage speakers are not the same as those from 1970, although the basic design has not changed, that much is certain.

b) Who is Tom Brennan and what is his context in relation to loudspeakers? Don't recognize the name. Just curious.

c) I do not find them harsh but YMMV for sure. That said, the problem as you state it is not the speaker per se, but 'some recordings'. A decent loudspeaker will highlight a bad recording. If you are looking for a loudspeaker that will make bad recordings sound pleasant, then I would suggest something cheap and inexpensive with limited FR and dynamics.

d) A horn loaded loudspeaker will not have the subjective bass (gut punching room vibrating movie soundtrack capability) as a box (sealed, vented, or otherwise), unless the horn is huge. This is not the same as 'bass free'. Most musical content (non-electronic) does not have those sorts of lows, unless your idea of music has a lot of C-0 to C1 content (middle C being C4); such as pipe organ tunes. Or tuba concertos--Vaughn Williams actually wrote one of those for one reason or another. In that case you then must buy a subwoofer, a lot of power, and consider certain and distortion characteristics. However, for this sort of 'full range' capability most 'full range' loudspeakers are supplemented by subwoofers these days. So to fault horns for this lack of FR seems a bit unfriendly.

e) I see from emoticons that your reply is somewhat tongue in cheek, but someone reading quickly could misinterpret your good will and think you are totally serious. Then it is helpful to consider the old saying: when one so seriously overstates their position it is difficult for serious people to take them seriously. On the other hand, if the purpose of 'face down on the floor' is to irritate the family in the condo below you then just about any loudspeaker will do, and in fact I'd suggest a box loudspeaker and not a horn.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Or tuba concertos--Vaughn Williams actually wrote one of those for one reason or another

One of my favourite pieces

 

[anmpr1]

One of my favourite pieces

Your hardcore Frank.

My take is just because something can be done doesn't mean it has to be done!

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

One of my favourite pieces

I wasn't aware that he wrote one - I guess I could save some power consumption when playing a tuba concerto by turning off my HF amplifier and just use the woofers!

 

[SIY]

One of my favourite pieces

 

[anmpr1]

I wasn't aware that he wrote one - I guess I could save some power consumption when playing a tuba concerto by turning off my HF amplifier and just use the woofers!

It's sort of like Sam Johnson's dog (or woman's preaching) quip. To paraphrase from Boswell's Life, "When you see a dog walking on its hind legs you aren't surprised that it's not done well..., you're surprised that it's done at all."

But Ralph was first class, so the tuba thing is probably done as well as one could ever expect!

 

[Frank Dernie]

Your hardcore Frank.

My take is just because something can be done doesn't mean it has to be done!

Have you listened to it?
I admit I bought the LP (in 1972) expecting it to be a bit of a curio added to a Pastoral Symphony LP but ended up falling in love with it.
It is one of the reasons I still fire up my record player!

Edit, I just checked and the recording I bought in 1972 is on Qobuz.
Fletcher/Previn LSO still twinned with the Pastoral Symphony (No3)

 

[Sal1950]

What happened after that? He's gone

Not gone but it's been a while since he posted
Why do you ask?

 

[watchnerd]

One of my favourite pieces

I'm so disappointed.

It's arranged like a beefed up French horn.

I was hoping for some insane British composer take on German schlager music....

 

[Lbstyling]

Instruments are either recorded with a "wide-angle lens" playing ensemble, or they're mugshot (no background) with a "short-tele or maybe a macro lens" and then mixed together into a composite picture.
Our system reproduces this picture using a pair of (main) speakers.

Wide dispersion speakers make use of the side walls to enhance envelopment but the downside is increased room interference, particularly noticeable when the recording aims at producing an illusion which transports the listener to the venue where the original event took place (common with classical music, rare with other genres).

100%

Play typical pop music through my (narrow pattern) horns and it sound dry. Every synthetic instrument and added 'effect' like reverb (especially 80's studio mixed stuff) sounds detailed but synthetic.

Play a live track and it sounds like you are there. Same goes for classical, and for older recordings. New stuff (even pop) is getting vastly better across the board, and this is clear on my speakers.

Put my big focals on though, and it all sounds more wide and 'Live', but it sounds like that regardless of what the track is. Heavily mixed/engineered tracks sound MUCH more like everything else.

The majority (all?) of tracks sound excellent on the (good measuring ) focals.
None of them make the hairs on the back of your head stand up though.