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High-res audio comparison: Linn Records Free High Res Samples

Blumlein 88

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Yes, but, many years ago we didn't have too many companies coming with crazily high data rates.
I think checking things relatively simple to check isn't harmful, even if only to confirm they don't matter.
The very first Philips DACs in the earliest CD players ran at 4x sample rates. Overheating wasn't a problem.

The first Sony DACs actually ran one channel DACs and switched between the left and right channel running at 2x rates.
 

restorer-john

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The very first Philips DACs in the earliest CD players ran at 4x sample rates. Overheating wasn't a problem.

You'd be surprised how warm the TDA-1540D (Philips first 14 bit DAC) ran. The first packs were ceramic...
 

restorer-john

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Yes, but do you know of them over-heating?

Never seen a dead one, but some other D/As were equipped with small copper heatsinks, particularly on machines where the PCB was mounted upside down (brilliant idea that was).
 

respice finem

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So, as we can see we can't see a thing until we measure... I can do it, but only after my ADI2-DAC is out of warranty, which is still a long time... ;)
 

respice finem

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Never seen a dead one, but some other D/As were equipped with small copper heatsinks, particularly on machines where the PCB was mounted upside down (brilliant idea that was).
Some such constructions (mounted upside down) have emerged in the "bad caps era", maybe they sought to protect the PCB in case a cap becomes "incontinent"? Anyway, hot chips (and generally parts) tend to live shorter than cool ones, so maybe it's really worth checking.
 

voodooless

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I think checking things relatively simple to check isn't harmful, even if only to confirm they don't matter.

Why should we check every crazy idea that somebody comes up with? You make the claims, you get the proof. Or At least come up with a half way decent reasoning of why an investigation would be warranted. This is exactly how many of the audiophile myths are born.

If you’d integrate the energy of all the HF content, you’d see that it’s just a fraction of what lives below 20 kHz. So from that point of view, it would not add to the thermals of the DAC. And even if it were full white noise from 0 to fs/2, why would that matter? If the DAC is speced for DXD, it should handle that, no matter the content.
 

Pluto

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If the head wrote it, it can read something
In the context of bias I don't believe this applies as, typically, very little residual of the actual bias signal remains on the tape. Although the HF bias leaves the wanted audio on the tape in a far more linear state than otherwise, as far as I remember (I haven't been near an analogue recorder for over 20 years) the actual bias frequency is well beyond the point on the tape at which the self-erasure effect becomes dominant and very little residual of the actual bias signal remains.
 

respice finem

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Why should we check every crazy idea that somebody comes up with? You make the claims, you get the proof...
I will measure it anyway after warranty expiry, for my own curiosity, and I did not make any claim, I am only curious in the context of #153 if it might be... I hope being curious is kindly allowed. If everything always was as it should, many things (experimenting, prototyping) would be unecessary. Veryifying people's crazy ideas is the business of science, sometimes (not in this case because I can do it myself).

But to be clear: nobody needs to do anything, it's not a matter of life or death.
Peace...
 
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Pluto

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My understanding is that pre-emphasis was pretty much DOA, and very few CDs were ever mastered with it
If a CD was mastered directly from a tape made with one of the ‘domestic’ style PCM converters (PCM-F1 etc.), it would likely have the pre-emphasis enabled because these units always recorded with pre-emphasis and there was no simple way of doing otherwise. On the professional units (PCM-1610+) pre-emphasis was a switchable option which was, in my experience, seldom (if ever) used.

The only CDs of which I am aware that have pre-emphasis are some early discs of digital sound effects field recordings (made with the PCM-F1), subsequently issued on CD. This was of no consequence as sound effects are invariably tweaked to taste.
 

Pluto

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AFAIK the bias tone is written by the erase head and not by the record head
No! Although the same oscillator drives both, the erase head typically has a far wider gap and is a brute force device with no purpose other than to get rid of every last residual of whatever was on the tape previously. The magic performed by bias is written by the record head.

As an interesting aside, the physical interval between the erase head and record head was always an issue when it came to precise drop-ins and, trickier, drop-outs. Some of the last and best analogue recorders had quite sophisticated timing circuits in an attempt to square this particular circle. Think about the problem and you will realize that it's more or less unsolvable ;)
 

voodooless

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I will measure it anyway after warranty expiry, for my own curiosity, and I did not make any claim, I am only curious in the context of #153 if it might be... I hope being curious is kindly allowed. If everything always was as it should, many things (experimenting, prototyping) would be unecessary.

There is nothing wrong with being curious in of itself. But some things are just not really worth investigating. IMHO, this is one of them.

What if it turns out that the DAC chip is hotter at higher sample rate? That still does not prove anything, does it?

Veryifying people's crazy ideas is the business of science, sometimes (not in this case because I can do it myself).

No, science checks hypotheses, not crazy ideas. There is a slight difference ;)


Definitely, as much as possible :cool:
 

Pluto

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Why even sample above 25+30khz? It seems like it just adds noise and data bloat to the file and doesn't give any benefit.
And that, my friend, is the crux of the matter. In any event, most general purpose microphones have no significant useful output much above 25kHz and it's highly likely that even if you could hear in that region, you wouldn't really like what you heard. There is some argument in defence of the use of anti-aliasing filters at higher frequencies so as to cause less ‘damage’ within the audible range, but that's a moot point.

For all the huffing and puffing about high-resolution audio, there is very little solid evidence to support the notion that 16/44 (as a final delivery format) in any way fails to fully support the capabilities of human hearing.
 

Pluto

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There is a persistent conspiracy theory that 48kHz was chosen for DAT to prevent easy copying of CDs.
CD is really an anomaly,
Another reason that 44.1kHz floated to the top was that it was a number that could be made to work in both PAL and NTSC domains.

I suspect all the bizarre reasons for the digital founding fathers to have chosen this, that or the other sampling rate are true to a greater or lesser extent. At one time the major record labels were truly bricking it at the prospect of digital recorders capable of making direct digital copies of CDs. I know this to be fact from meetings in which I personally participated.
 

voodooless

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Another reason that 44.1kHz floated to the top was that it was a number that could be made to work in both PAL and NTSC domains.

Funny thing that all video content is 48 kHz nowadays.
 

Pluto

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Bias was simply used for pre-magnetising the tape and reduce noise, mainly hiss
I'm sorry, but this is a gross oversimplification. The only way I can explain how bias worked, in a few words, is this: magnetic recording is, inherently, highly non-linear. By using an AC bias signal (typically >8× the maximum audio frequency of interest) whose magnitude was significantly higher than the wanted audio, as the tape entered the magnetizing zone of the head it would be pulled and pushed through several non-linear cycles of the bias waveform which gradually reduced to zero plus the required audio as the tape left the vicinity of the head.

In the absence of the bias signal, the residual audio would be entirely at the mercy of squat S-shaped hysteresis loop but the fact that the magnetizing force on the tape builds to a peak and the opposite peak and the opposite peak and the opposite peak and then declines gradually at a rate several times higher than the maximum audio frequency leaves a residual that is a relatively linear approximation to the audio waveform you want to record.

Post-edit: the whole bias thing is quite well explained here
 
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sergeauckland

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No! Although the same oscillator drives both, the erase head typically has a far wider gap and is a brute force device with no purpose other than to get rid of every last residual of whatever was on the tape previously. The magic performed by bias is written by the record head.

As an interesting aside, the physical interval between the erase head and record head was always an issue when it came to precise drop-ins and, trickier, drop-outs. Some of the last and best analogue recorders had quite sophisticated timing circuits in an attempt to square this particular circle. Think about the problem and you will realize that it's more or less unsolvable ;)
That was why Sel-Sync was developed on multitrack machines. (Selsync was the Ampex term for it, I think Studer made up their own) This used the record head for playback into the monitoring system, so, for example, a singer could add their contribution without the timing error between replay and record. The playback quality wasn't as good, given the much wider gap of the record head, but good enough to maintain sync.

S.
 

Pluto

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Funny thing that all video content is 48 kHz nowadays.
And always has been, to my knowledge.

Back in the day, there certainly was a movement to keep “domestic” digital audio at a different sampling rate to professional. Sample rate conversion was such a faff at that time that this was believed, in itself, to provide a significant degree of copy-protection.
 

sergeauckland

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Another reason that 44.1kHz floated to the top was that it was a number that could be made to work in both PAL and NTSC domains.

I suspect all the bizarre reasons for the digital founding fathers to have chosen this, that or the other sampling rate are true to a greater or lesser extent. At one time the major record labels were truly bricking it at the prospect of digital recorders capable of making direct digital copies of CDs. I know this to be fact from meetings in which I personally participated.

My understanding at the time was exactly this, given that the only mastering machines at the time were U-Matic VCRs, with the audio digits being made to look like a legal video signal. You could replay the resulting tape into a TV monitor and see a pattern of dots.

I wonder if PCs had been available in 1983, whether CD would ever have been launched without some sort of encryption. Whether the technology of the time would have enabled that, I don't now remember, but it was a topic of conversation amongst audio engineers.

S.
 
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