Hi-if subwoofer with line level pass through

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I might be barking up the wrong tree, but I’ll give it a go.

I’d like a subwoofer, where you output stereo RCAs from your pre-amp/DAC/whatever, then the sub’s crossover does its job and strips out the sub bass, then outputs over stereo RCAs to your amp.

The idea being that it removes the need for bass management in your amp; this is done in the sub.

It’d help if the subwoofer were mind-boggling good and extremely cheap.

Does such a thing exist?

 

[staticV3]

Many studio subs have a proper crossover built-in with a low-passed sub and a high-passed Line out for your mains.

Here are the cheapest subs that I could find with this functionality:
-Presonus Sub 8BT (200€): variable LPF & fixed 80Hz HPF
-ESI Aktiv 10S (240€): variable LPF & fixed 100Hz HPF
-KRK S8.4 (300€): selectable Xo (LPF&HPF) 70/80/90/100Hz

Some Hifi/HT subs also have this feature. For example, the KEF KC62.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Many studio subs have a proper crossover built-in with a low-passed sub and a high-passed Line out for your mains.

Here are the cheapest subs that I could find with this functionality:
-Presonus Sub 8BT (200€): variable LPF & fixed 80Hz HPF
-ESI Aktiv 10S (240€): variable LPF & fixed 100Hz HPF
-KRK S8.4 (300€): selectable Xo (LPF&HPF) 70/80/90/100Hz

Some Hifi/HT subs also have this feature. For example, the KEF KC62.

Cheers.

Anthing inbetween, price-wise? Say £400-£600?

 

[Flexecutioner]

Some of the older non-pro versions of SVS subs have a high passed rca output. Finding them used for a decent price isn't very difficult if you're in the US.

 

[sweetchaos]

Studio subs and a few hi-fi subs have high pass filters.

I already have a way to find them all, using my subwoofer comparison spreadsheet.

You’re welcome!

 

[Berwhale]

I'm using the Presonus Sub8 (non-BT version) just like this with balanced connections, but it will work with RCA as well. The signal chain is Topping EX5 -> Sub8 -> iLoud MTMs. LPF is set to 80Hz on the Sub8, HPF is enabled for the Sub8 output and the LF Extension is also set to 80Hz on my MTMs.

 

[Willem]

The SVS SB1000 (non classic) is what you are looking for I think. I see a new one here in the Netherlands for 500 euros.
Edit: classic rather than the Pro

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Studio subs and a few hi-fi subs have high pass filters.

I already have a way to find them all, using my subwoofer comparison spreadsheet.

You’re welcome!

If you could let me know where to look and specifically what to look for, I’d be very grateful.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

The SVS SB1000 (non classic) is what you are looking for I think. I see a new one here in the Netherlands for 500 euros.

Cheers. It says here that it doesn’t have a high pass filter (post 3):

SVS 1000 Pro Series

https://www.svsound.com/collections/1000-pro-series-subwoofers?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=1000prolaunch SVS announced an update to their existing 1000 line. EDIT: From the Specs SB-1000 Pro: Driver | 12" Amplifier | 325 watts RMS (820+ watts peak) Freq. Response...

audiosciencereview.com

Is that just the ‘pro’?

 

[Willem]

Sorry I made a mistake: I meant the classic, non pro model. The new Pro model has an app to control it and some filters, but no longer a HP filter. The classic model is still/again available quite widely, at least here and in the US.

 

[staticV3]

Sorry I made a mistake: I meant the classic, non pro model. The new Pro model has an app to control it and some filters, but no longer a HP filter. The classic model is still/again available quite widely, at least here and in the US.

According to @sweetchaos' spreadsheet, the SVS SB/PB Pro models also have a high-pass filter..

 

[3125b]

Most sudio subs are quite underwhelming though.
Among those, at about 600$ I'd go for the Kali WS 6.2, LF extension isn't great, but it is more capable than most in terms of SPL.

If you use studio monitors with a 3 prong plug (IEC Class I, earthed) you really need a balanced connection between the different devices to avoid a ground loop. A sub with RCA outputs won't do. But if that's not the case your options aren't as limited.

Be aware that using the crossover of the sub will degrade the signal going to the speakers, sometimes very audibly.
One would have to measure this for any specfic sub to be sure, I haven't seen any measurements of that kind so far.

 

[Willem]

According to @sweetchaos' spreadsheet, the SVS SB/PB Pro models also have a high-pass filter..

But if I look at the manuals it says that the classic has an 80 Hz high pass filter, and the manual of the Pro does not mention this. Anyway, I think the classic is the beter by. You pay quite a lot extra for just three filters on the Pro.

 

[Music707]

According to @sweetchaos' spreadsheet, the SVS SB/PB Pro models also have a high-pass filter..

Well, let's take a look at the SVS SB-2000 Pro data:

Entry in @sweetchaos' spreadsheet (credits to him for this fantastic resource!):
25,31,40hz with 7 to 9db/octave, must be manually enabled using mobile app's DSP "room gain compensation".

The term and the frequencies (not the slopes) meet with the manual:

However, the term 'Room Gain Comp' already signals that this is not what you like to find for integrating sub and main speakers.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Most sudio subs are quite underwhelming though.
Among those, at about 600$ I'd go for the Kali WS 6.2, LF extension isn't great, but it is more capable than most in terms of SPL.

If you use studio monitors with a 3 prong plug (IEC Class I, earthed) you really need a balanced connection between the different devices to avoid a ground loop. A sub with RCA outputs won't do. But if that's not the case your options aren't as limited.

Be aware that using the crossover of the sub will degrade the signal going to the speakers, sometimes very audibly.
One would have to measure this for any specfic sub to be sure, I haven't seen any measurements of that kind so far.

I’m glad you bought that up, as it us a consideration.

To what extent does a crossover like this affect sound quality.

Comments, everyone?

 

[sweetchaos]

According to @sweetchaos' spreadsheet, the SVS SB/PB Pro models also have a high-pass filter..

I don’t have access to my spreadsheet now, but I’m pretty sure that’s wrong. SVS had the high pass filter on the non-pro models. And when they introduced the pro models, they removed the high pass.

I’ll double check my spreadsheet later, to see if I made a mistake.

 

[Willem]

According to @sweetchaos' spreadsheet, the SVS SB/PB Pro models also have a high-pass filter..

But if I look at the manuals it says that the classic has an 80 Hz high pass filter, and the manual of the Pro does not mention this. Anyway, I think the classic is the better buy. You pay quite a lot extra for just three filters on the Pro.

 

[3125b]

To what extent does a crossover like this affect sound quality.

Again, depends.
I have one sub with crossover (Dynaudio 9S), I could measure that with my RME ... if I could find my damn cables.
My guess would be about 40dB SNR, it's very noisy.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I don’t have access to my spreadsheet now, but I’m pretty sure that’s wrong. SVS had the high pass filter on the non-pro models. And when they introduced the pro models, they removed the high pass.

I’ll double check my spreadsheet later, to see if I made a mistake.

Cheers. Let us know how you get on.

 

[sweetchaos]

Regarding SVS subs:

For the discontinued non-pro models... I wrote in my spreadsheet "80hz 12db/octave via "line level output", which means it's built into the subwoofer, so the user doesnt have to enable it, since it's built in, and once the use uses the 'line level output', the high pass filter is activated.

For the current pro models.... I wrote in my spreadsheet: "25,31,40hz with 7 to 9db/octave, must be manually enabled using mobile app's DSP "room gain compensation".

The SVS mobile app is how you can interact with the current line of SVS subwoofers. Available for iOS and for Android.

I got this information from this (old?) SVS guide, plus Ed Mullen (from SVS) confirmed here (on Nov, 2016) that the mobile app allows you to control the variable high pass filter.
Then, if you watch this youtube clip (from Oct 2020), you can see the "room gain compensation" in action, only selectable from 25, 31 and 40hz.
The youtuber takes a measurement with REW, before and after 'room gain compensation' and you can see that the effect is substantial.
It almost* looks like a high pass filter.
Before activating 'room gain compensation':

After activating 'room gain compensation' at 40hz:

It also looks like 12db/octave is the default mode.
Since I don't have an SVS subwoofer, I can't test this function, or see the the other selectable filter slopes (beyond 12db/octave).

Another post here by Ed Mullen (from SVS) (from Feb 2023) confirms that 6db/octave is also available to be selected.

Here's a few examples:

I'll update my documentation to be more clear:
"No typical 80hz high pass filter exists via line level output. But if you download SVS mobile app, you can set an adjustable high pass filter, which SVS calls "Room Gain Compensation". Only 3 frequencies are available 25hz, 31hz, and 40hz, with 6db/octave to 12db/octave adjustable."

I hope that's clarifies this.

Let me know if I made any mistake in my reasoning and analysis.