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Help Choosing Between Subs

I'd lean towards ported in your room unless you are music only and don't need the significant deep bass advantage ported subs offer. FV15HP is +5 dB vs E22 at 20 Hz. That's basically double the output and will be lower distortion and more tactile.

As previously suggested, no matter what sub you upgrade to, you'll have to go around the room and soundproof a bit with some little felt pads behind/under/between anything that is rattling.

I'm an advocate of dual subs….its highly unusual to be able to get a smooth response with one sub, and almost certainly not going to happen at more than one seat even if you get lucky.

If I were in your shoes, I'd look at:
Dual Rythmik FV15HP
Dual PSA TV1512
Dual Hsu VTF15H MK2(WTB more letters and numbers for the name of this sub please, kthnxbye)
Dual Hsu VTF3 MK5
Dual Monolith 15
Dual SVS PB3000

First two would be my top two picks.
 
I'd lean towards ported in your room unless you are music only and don't need the significant deep bass advantage ported subs offer. FV15HP is +5 dB vs E22 at 20 Hz. That's basically double the output and will be lower distortion and more tactile.

As previously suggested, no matter what sub you upgrade to, you'll have to go around the room and soundproof a bit with some little felt pads behind/under/between anything that is rattling.

I'm an advocate of dual subs….its highly unusual to be able to get a smooth response with one sub, and almost certainly not going to happen at more than one seat even if you get lucky.

If I were in your shoes, I'd look at:
Dual Rythmik FV15HP
Dual PSA TV1512
Dual Hsu VTF15H MK2(WTB more letters and numbers for the name of this sub please, kthnxbye)
Dual Hsu VTF3 MK5
Dual Monolith 15
Dual SVS PB3000

First two would be my top two picks.

That's a good list, and pretty similar to my own. I made a spreadsheet for comparison and found the HSU 15MK2 to be the sub that hit the deepest, but would allow similar placement to my current subs without having to get rid of furniture or rearrange the room, both of which have potential to upset my wife. Also, since this is a living room for more than just audio, I do understand where my wife is coming from when she basically wants the speakers/subs to be able to integrate within the room. We don't want people stepping over huge subs, massive bass traps on the walls, or subs blocking access to bookshelves, cabinets, etc.

I think the list of subs you are suggesting would be the best choice for sound quality, and I appreciate that. I think for me, WAF and convenience also come into play. I'm leaning toward either dual HSU 15MK2's or dual SVS SB2000 Pros. The HSU's would offer better bass extension. The SVS allow for DSP via the app. They also have an adapter for wireless use and are smaller, so they could be moved to more potential positions within the room. In the end I'll have to decide if it's more valuable to have the convenience of altering sub settings and DSP from my phone along with the potential to place them in more possible locations vs better bass quality, but with less convenience and more placement restrictions. If I got a sub as big as the VTF15H, for example, I would have basically only one place I could put the two subs and even then I'd have to make some changes to the furniture. They're more powerful so even though I've "rattle proofed" a bunch of stuff I'd probably have to do some more rattle proofing. I guess in the end it all comes down to how much money, time, and WAF you are willing to sacrifice for good bass/sound.
 
That's a good list, and pretty similar to my own. I made a spreadsheet for comparison and found the HSU 15MK2 to be the sub that hit the deepest, but would allow similar placement to my current subs without having to get rid of furniture or rearrange the room, both of which have potential to upset my wife. Also, since this is a living room for more than just audio, I do understand where my wife is coming from when she basically wants the speakers/subs to be able to integrate within the room. We don't want people stepping over huge subs, massive bass traps on the walls, or subs blocking access to bookshelves, cabinets, etc.

I think the list of subs you are suggesting would be the best choice for sound quality, and I appreciate that. I think for me, WAF and convenience also come into play. I'm leaning toward either dual HSU 15MK2's or dual SVS SB2000 Pros. The HSU's would offer better bass extension. The SVS allow for DSP via the app. They also have an adapter for wireless use and are smaller, so they could be moved to more potential positions within the room. In the end I'll have to decide if it's more valuable to have the convenience of altering sub settings and DSP from my phone along with the potential to place them in more possible locations vs better bass quality, but with less convenience and more placement restrictions. If I got a sub as big as the VTF15H, for example, I would have basically only one place I could put the two subs and even then I'd have to make some changes to the furniture. They're more powerful so even though I've "rattle proofed" a bunch of stuff I'd probably have to do some more rattle proofing. I guess in the end it all comes down to how much money, time, and WAF you are willing to sacrifice for good bass/sound.

I can understand limiting size in a dual purpose space i.e. living room. I'm pretty lucky in that my two large-ish ported subs fit well aesthetically into the room. But if not, a pair of small sealed subs such as the Hsu ULS15 MK2 can still provide a satisfying movie experience and be more capable than needed for music.

However, given your room size, I wouldn't drop below the SB3000 if you go with SVS. So with keeping size down, how about this list:
Dual Hsu ULS15 MK2(under budget)
Dual SVS SB3000(under budget)
Dual Rythmik L22(under budget)
Dual Rythmik E15HP2(over)
Dual PSA S1512(over)….I demo'd a pair of these…..and came away *very* impressed…phenomenal on music and really good on movies. The B&C pro drivers in these are really something special IMO.
 
Thanks for all your help. It's interesting but every time I go back and think about this I come to a different conclusion. Lol! As of yesterday I was also considering the Hsu MK2's and the SVS SB 3000's. Looking at your list is making me re-think my circumstances. Looking at the L22 especially, is making me re-think things. The problem with the Rythmik L22 and E22 is I don't have 3rd party performance results, a la sweetchaos's spreadsheet, to compare them by. However, just thinking about it, they might be my best option.

They are from Rythmik (a trustworthy and laudable company) who is good at making "musical" subs. So I can assume they will probably integrate well with speakers and be good for music. Without being an engineer, the fact that they use two 12" drivers instead of a single 15"+ driver might also allow them to mix in better with the dual 6.5" woofers on my tower speaker? Also, I know that two subs are better. And I think the top of my budget is about 2k. I didn't want to spend as much or more on subs than I did on speakers, but maybe that's a bad way to look at it. Maybe it will be best to get the E22's and just wait 6 months or something until I can save more money then get another one.

I agree with you on the SVS 2000Pro. I've nixed that and if I go SVS I'll get the SB3000 at a minimum. I'm probably overrating how convenient their app will be. I don't think I want to go the miniDSP route, but at least with Rythmic I could fix one node using the PEQ on the sub itself.

Lots of good options out there. Thank you to everyone who chimed in. I have a lot of good options now.
 
The data collection and analysis on this site has shown that you can't rely on brand as an indicator of quality or performance. So I would not recommend picking one that is not on the list. You will be happy with the performance of any of the options where the data is available to you. So I'd recommend you pick from the database list which ever one gives you the features and the ability to try it out in your house and return it if you don't like it. To get yourself over the decision hump.

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The data collection and analysis on this site has shown that you can't rely on brand as an indicator of quality or performance. So I would not recommend picking one that is not on the list. You will be happy with the performance of any of the options where the data is available to you. So I'd recommend you pick from the database list which ever one gives you the features and the ability to try it out in your house and return it if you don't like it. To get yourself over the decision hump.

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That's a good point...although I did pick my tower speakers (Aria 926) and they hadn't been evaluated on ASR either...The 906 did do well, however. In general, I agree with you, though. My speakers I picked up used, so there wasn't an option to just pick up whatever I wanted. Otherwise maybe I would have looked at some Revel speakers or something, but there are also very few tower speakers that have been evaluated on ASR so...What can you do! Lol!
 
Choosing a sub with third party tests on Data-Bass or Audioholics etc obviously is a safe bet, but when you have a company that has 4-5 of their subs tested and they are all fantastic(i.e Rythmik), its a pretty safe bet that the rest of their product line performs well. Sort of like Revel speakers…..every one tested has done quite exceptional at their given price points so its not much of a leap of faith to think that a model that hasn't been 3rd party tested will also perform well.

I wouldn't be concerned with subwoofer driver size vs the driver size in your speakers. I've used high quality 18's and they were the best subs I've ever owned for music….they would play out as high as 500+ Hz if anyone would want to so they have the potential to blend much better than virtually any retail brand subwoofer regardless of how small the driver.

As long as the sub can extend to well beyond 120 Hz, no issue blending with any speaker crossed at 80.
 
They are from Rythmik (a trustworthy and laudable company) who is good at making "musical" subs. So I can assume they will probably integrate well with speakers and be good for music. .

All I use my Rythmik F12G for is music, it's fabulous. Also, don't under-rate that Rythmiks are servo subs. (It would be interesting to disable the servo circuit, if possible, and see how they test.)
 
I think you're generally fine with most of the subs suggested, the differences would likely be very little with normal use/spl levels. Picking nits to an extent let alone "musical".
 
Side question, since you guys are the bass experts. When I run Onkyo's version of room eq/audessy with my subs at 50% gain it calibrates them with a +4 trim at the AVR level. Is it better to increase the bass via the gain knob on the sub or from the AVR? Should I up the gain on the subs a little bit to get closer to +0 trim at the AVR after running the calibration?

Thanks for your help!
 
Side question, since you guys are the bass experts. When I run Onkyo's version of room eq/audessy with my subs at 50% gain it calibrates them with a +4 trim at the AVR level. Is it better to increase the bass via the gain knob on the sub or from the AVR? Should I up the gain on the subs a little bit to get closer to +0 trim at the AVR after running the calibration?

Thanks for your help!

You mean AccuEQ that replaced Audyssey in Onkyo avrs? Either way when they advise to set gain at 50% its just a guess at what gain setting on the sub might work. If it puts it deep into (or at the max of) the negative range set at 50% then the gain's set on the high side, if it puts it into the positive range it's a bit too low. If it puts trim in the positive range I'd up the gain on the sub a bit and bring it into the negative range myself (to allow a little boosting on the trim level).
 
Side question, since you guys are the bass experts. When I run Onkyo's version of room eq/audessy with my subs at 50% gain it calibrates them with a +4 trim at the AVR level. Is it better to increase the bass via the gain knob on the sub or from the AVR? Should I up the gain on the subs a little bit to get closer to +0 trim at the AVR after running the calibration?

Thanks for your help!
The +4 trim is inconsequential, if it would make you feel better to turn the subs up 4db and try to get the Onkyo's eq to come out near zero, go for it but it won't make any difference in the end product. Only if you were near or at the max compenstion (12db for Audyssey) would it become important.
 
Side question, since you guys are the bass experts. When I run Onkyo's version of room eq/audessy with my subs at 50% gain it calibrates them with a +4 trim at the AVR level. Is it better to increase the bass via the gain knob on the sub or from the AVR? Should I up the gain on the subs a little bit to get closer to +0 trim at the AVR after running the calibration?

Thanks for your help!
This is my understanding:

You want to avoid using positive trim levels in the AVR subwoofer menu. It has been found that with a demanding signal, AVR's will clip the pre-outs when sub trim is in the positive levels. The safest bet therefore is to *increase* the gain on the subwoofer(s) such that you get a reading of around -9 or -10 when running room correction. This allows you to run the sub *hot* up to 9 to 10 dB without exceeding 0 for trim level in the AVR, which should prevent clipping. Just be sure you don't get -12 as it may be trying to turn the sub level down much more than 12.
 
Side question, since you guys are the bass experts. When I run Onkyo's version of room eq/audessy with my subs at 50% gain it calibrates them with a +4 trim at the AVR level. Is it better to increase the bass via the gain knob on the sub or from the AVR? Should I up the gain on the subs a little bit to get closer to +0 trim at the AVR after running the calibration?

Thanks for your help!
I was going to go into an oversimplified explanation, but it is probably better explained from this article from Power Sound Audio (PSA)

The gain control position is an indicator of how "hard" the subwoofer is working in the system---right?

Incorrect. The gain knob can be set very low and the subwoofer may be working at its maximum limits. Conversely, the gain control can be set very high and the subwoofer may be coasting along and never even approach its maximum output limits. And when you see someone say/post "this subwoofer is very powerful, I only have my gain control set to 25% and the bass over powers the entire room". this really tells you nothing in regards to the subwoofer capabilities. Well, it may tell you it has a very sensitive gain control but that's about it.

At the risk of over simplifying a bit, all the gain control really does is control the sensitivity of the input (RCA jack or XLR) jack on the subwoofer. By adjusting the gain control you are adjusting the amount of bass produced by the subwoofer RELATIVE to the input signal strength your receiver/processor sends it. The maximum output capabilities of the subwoofer never change. There is no "correct" setting for gain controls. You should simply adjust them as needed to ensure proper bass levels during your calibration process.
 
I believe it was in this forum that I read the opinion [of several members] that modern, small, light-weight, switched p/s, class-D amped subwoofers would easily outperform the bulky, heavy, linear p/s, class-AB amped subwoofers of yesteryear. Hmm. I have a relatively new SVS SB12-NSD sub in one corner of the room and a vintage Revel B15a in the other corner -- it's a temporary arrangement while my 2nd Revel B15a is being repaired -- and I can say confidently that the B15a soundly trumps the SB12. Some will argue that I cannot compare a 12" subwoofer to a 15" subwoofer, but the tone of many opinions is that newer must necessarily be better -- better transducers, better electronics.

I'm reminded of the young car enthusiasts who advocate for turbo charging [e.g. class-D/switched] vs the old-timers who advocate for displacement [linear]. Specifically, the old-timers had a saying: "Nothing beats displacement like displacement." [EDIT: Should have been: "There's no replacement for displacement."]

It's true that the one is smaller and lighter than the other: I could throw the SB12 across the room, whereas I can barely lift the B15a past my ankles.
 
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I believe it was in this forum that I read the opinion [of several members] that modern, small, light-weight, switched p/s, class-D amped subwoofers would easily outperform the bulky, heavy, linear p/s, class-AB amped subwoofers of yesteryear. Hmm. I have a relatively new SVS SB12-NSD sub in one corner of the room and a vintage Revel B15a in the other corner -- it's a temporary arrangement while my 2nd Revel B15a is being repaired -- and I can say confidently that the B15a soundly trumps the SB12.
I believe your incorrectly summarizing a few mis-understood posts from where-ever.
I don't even understand the point of your post ???
 
I don't even understand the point of your post ???
The OP was choosing between the SVS [light] vs the Rythmik [heavy]. If I'm not able to audition, I'd go with specs -- and heavy. I'd prefer a linear p/s and a massive driver in a thick-walled cabinet.
 
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I believe it was in this forum that I read the opinion [of several members] that modern, small, light-weight, switched p/s, class-D amped subwoofers would easily outperform the bulky, heavy, linear p/s, class-AB amped subwoofers of yesteryear. Hmm. I have a relatively new SVS SB12-NSD sub in one corner of the room and a vintage Revel B15a in the other corner -- it's a temporary arrangement while my 2nd Revel B15a is being repaired -- and I can say confidently that the B15a soundly trumps the SB12. Some will argue that I cannot compare a 12" subwoofer to a 15" subwoofer, but the tone of many opinions is that newer must necessarily be better -- better transducers, better electronics.

I'm reminded of the young car enthusiasts who advocate for turbo charging [e.g. class-D/switched] vs the old-timers who advocate for displacement [linear]. Specifically, the old-timers had a saying: "Nothing beats displacement like displacement." [EDIT: Should have been: "There's no replacement for displacement."]

It's true that the one is smaller and lighter than the other: I could throw the SB12 across the room, whereas I can barely lift the B15a past my ankles.
The OP was choosing between the SVS [light] vs the Rythmik [heavy]. If I'm not able to audition, I'd go with specs -- and heavy. I'd prefer a linear p/s and a massive driver in a thick-walled cabinet.
Without specifications for each sub. Driver size, x-max, box volume, ported or sealed, tune point, Amp specs. You are comparing apples to oranges and your argument is not an argument it’s an opinion without performance measurements of individual Sub in your room. Unless your point was to unfairly make grandiose comparisons in an effort to discredit what some ASR members may or may not have said. Again in this accusation you have provided zero evidence to support your claims.

This type of Strawman will not fly here. Please reread the room and engage authentically or move along.
 
Apologies for expressing an opinion; I do not have the wherewithal to measure my own subwoofer setup let alone the plethora of options available. I also take back the "I believe it was in this forum ..." comment because I can provide no supportive evidence.
 
I’m looking for two new subwoofers to replace my 20+ year-old Sunfire True Signature subs. While they’ve served their purpose, I’ve never been fully impressed with their performance for music, which makes up 60% of my listening (movies are the other 40%). Often, while listening to stereo channels, I’d turn them off and run my Polk R700s in full range since the Sunfires felt too boomy, even with ARC Genesis room correction.

I’m currently considering two sealed models: the Rythmik E15HP2 and the SVS SB17 Ultra. I prefer sealed subs, I don’t have the space for larger cabinets. I know either of these would be a massive upgrade. Still, I’m particularly intrigued by the Rythmik’s reputation for excelling with music—quick, tight, and detailed—while still delivering impressive performances for movies. Their measurements show they extend down to 14 Hz, and both models offer a very flat response curve with plenty of SPL.

I’ll say this: the SVS subs come with some impressive specs—dual 8” voice coils, dual mono amps (2800 watts), and a switch-mode power supply. That said, I’m not sure how much of that translates into real-world performance versus being more of an SVS marketing flex. The app, all the adjustable settings, and even the built-in auto room correction seem cool on paper, but I don’t think I’d use them since Anthem ARC Genesis will be handling the DSP in my setup.

My priority is something that integrates seamlessly with my system, providing the highest-quality playback for music (both 2-channel and 5.1 studio/live recordings) and enhancing the cinematic experience for movies. What are your thoughts on these two options? Does anyone have experience with either?
 
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