Has the meta on IEMs moved away from Harman's "pinna gain"?

[InfiniteJester]

Man, I've gotten to the point of literally being hyped by those IEM's. I am actually talking about them with fellow musicians whenever I talk about monitoring with them. I use them everyday to change perspective in a studio with two good pairs of monitors (one full-range) and the Audeze hanging next to them.

I de-essed vocals a day or two ago with them, and cleaned up other vocal tracks with them today because they make that kind of detail work effortless, and the highs with that 1db boost are just -spot on-. And the part that impressed me the most, I monitored with them while tracking someone, and noticed I was much more precise on Hexas after hearing takes from the same person monitored through HD280s (which are good tracking headphones for the seal).

Literally the most effective 80€ I've ever spent in studio monitoring equipment, bar nothing. It just sits there next to tools and systems costing 10-40 times as much and gets regularly picked. I am positive you won't regret, easiest buy even if you only had 80 bucks to buy one thing in one year.

Money is not an issue. Saving face in front of a family that looks with increasing disdain at my vast collection of IEMs, headphones, electronic and regular books, speakers, consoles, Steam games, instruments, and other frivolities is.

 

[WalterW]

If the age of Konstantins comments are a problem then the age of Sean Olives publications must me even more problematic, given that his is more than twice as old..

Ah, the latest publication from Sean Olive is from October 2024..........

.In reality there's no controversy as all the parties mentioned are aware of each other and, among other ways, stay informed through each other's output on various formal and less formal channels. Another source of information is the is documentation of standards that the two-measurement systems discussed are based upon. Of which IEC 711 states that precision is limited below 100Hz.

May well be, the Harman research still maintains an IE target curve with significantly more bass than the OE curve, besides 5128 and all that.

 

[markanini]

Ah, the latest publication from Sean Olive is from October 2024..........

The one relevant to

Well, that might be. But on the other hand, JM-1 with -8db/oct tilt and 4 dB of bass shelf is basically the Soundguys target. But they claim that their target is valid for both, over ear headphones and IEMs, yet in the Harman research it was a clear finding, that IEMs need more bass than headphones.

is from 2017 https://aes2.org/publications/elibrary-page/?id=18369

BTW, since you remain opposed to Oratory1990 informative comments, and possibly statements made in Sean Olives 2024 paper. What's your title? Are you a researcher in any field?

 

[WalterW]

The one relevant to



is from 2017 https://aes2.org/publications/elibrary-page/?id=18369

Relevent to what? In the latest publication Sean Olive demonstarted that the Harman2019IEv2 target is along with the Soundguys target the most prefered one for IEMs even on the 5128, more so than one similar to the Harman2018OE target. This means mostly more bass.

BTW, since you remain opposed to Oratory1990 informative comments, and picky about titles, what yours? Are you a researcher in any field?

I am not opposed to Oratory1990 at all. He is a gifted engineer and communicator in the field and made various valuable contributions with his measurements, EQs and explanations. He is just not a researcher.

I personally don´t work in the field, but hold a PhD in theoretical physics. So what about you?

 

[markanini]

Relevent to what? In the latest publication Sean Olive demonstarted that the Harman2019IEv2 target is along with the Soundguys target the most prefered one for IEMs even on the 5128, more so than one similar to the Harman2018OE target. This means mostly more bass.

I am not opposed to Oratory1990 at all. He is a gifted engineer and communicator in the field and made various valuable contributions with his measurements, EQs and explanations. He is just not a researcher.

I personally don´t work in the field, but hold a PhD in theoretical physics. So what about you?

I'm not a researcher or work in a field comparable to Sean and Konstantin. But I'm not opposing information they have given the way you are. Would you not be cognizant of statistical significance if you have a PhD in theoretical physics? Because a second target with 3dB less bass was statistically tied. Are you joking around or memeing?

See this relevant excerpt from Seans 2024 paper

Would it not have been stated in the paper if the evidence was falsified?

 

[WalterW]

I'm not a researcher or work in a field comparable to Sean and Konstantin. But I'm not opposing information they have given the way you are.

I am not opossing their information, just don´t take anything for granted, especially if it is only suggested (as was the case by Oratory).

Would you not be cognizant of statistical significance if you have a PhD in theoretical physics? Because a second target with 3dB less bass was statistically tied.

1) yes, but this target has also less treble, to balance this out
2) bass has always been by the Harman people to be determined individually at will or preference, not being considered fixed once and for all.

Are you joking around or memeing?

No.

 

[InfiniteJester]

Relevent to what? In the latest publication Sean Olive demonstarted that the Harman2019IEv2 target is along with the Soundguys target the most prefered one for IEMs even on the 5128, more so than one similar to the Harman2018OE target. This means mostly more bass.

I am not opposed to Oratory1990 at all. He is a gifted engineer and communicator in the field and made various valuable contributions with his measurements, EQs and explanations. He is just not a researcher.

I personally don´t work in the field, but hold a PhD in theoretical physics. So what about you?

This would be my response to your question:

I personally use more bass on the SoundGuys by just no EQing the bass, which is more elevated in almost all my IEMs,

 

[artnoi]

I just got my new custom IEM the UERR+ (note: it has a plus, not sure what changed). I assume the plus is just a minor revision of the UERR, which was *marketed* as being the fruit of collaboration between Captol Records and UE and already has some FR published.

I bought the UERR+ when I really wanted a custom for travel. Back then I had not listened to my headphones for some time, and had lost my headphone comparison skills (I usually compared headphones against HD600 and ER4SR back when I was still active in the hobby).

Before the purchase, I looked up the measurements online and subjective review online and found it to be flat enough, but noticed that it has no ear gain (a dip, even). Like a fool I underestimated the importance of ear gain adjustment (despite being an Ety fan and know this by heart, lol) and went to do a demo.

I couldn't hear my problems with the demo UERR+ at the purchase date since I lost the evaluaton skill. The UERR+ purchase hyped me up during the lead time, and after the purchase date I've become addicted to the ER4SR again, and likely regained my preference target. I became accustomed to ER4SR flat and ear gain adjusted midrange.

I've attached Crinacle's UERR FR here. And as you can see from both UERR and ER4SR measurement, the pinna/ear gain is missing in the UERR:

The moment I received my UERR+, I was blown away by the bass and imaging (start of song), but then vocal comes in and suddenly everything seems off. Now that's very unfortunate, because I really like the bass performance and treble tuning of the UERR+. The bass's very clean, and measured very flat. It's my favorite bass from any speakers.

But the mid range, especially vocals, sound muffled and dull in comparison to my ER4SR and Softears Studio4. Now I'm ordering a custom version of Softears Studio4 (add $150) which I found to be similar to ER4SR.

This really makes me wonder why would folks at Capitols not only ignore the pinna/ear gain, but even preferred a dip at that region. I'm thinking maybe they want a flat baseline that they can apply their HRTF EQ to later. Or to reduce fatigue when listening at loud volume. Any engineers here know the reason why? There's a Reddit post that attempts to explain this but it does not seem to make sense to me.