Has civility on ASR declined recently?

[tomtoo]

That is very culture- and context-bound. In court for example would say "Surely you must be mistaken. I have evidence that contradicts that statement." but in certain cultures, like the Netherlands, there would very likely be a much more direct response. Even calling it out directly. Now, calling someone a liar is often rude, but most Dutch people have no problem saying "That is simply not true."

I have found in debates it often helps to point out to the audience if someone is using a logical fallacy. It makes it easier to follow along.

All this talk of lying reminds me of the time the US ambassador in the Netherlands got into hot water with the Dutch press because he lied about Dutch politicians being set on fire years before, denying he ever said that later and not wanting to answer any questions about it... so every journalist in the room started asking him about it. Politely of course. XD
He stopped being the Dutch ambassador on Jan 17th 2021.

It’s Lying Pete Hoekstra’s first day as the US Ambassador in the Netherlands - Dutchreview

P.s. If you ever see someone writing in extremely long English sentences, with lots of commas in there, they are probably either Dutch or German.

But saying something that is not true and a lia is not the same. A lia means saying something not true even i know its not true. I can say 2+2=5 is true without being a laier.

 

[Willem]

He refused to admit that he had been wrong. His was a pretty unbecoming interference in Dutch internal poilitics, and it was not the only occasion.

 

[voodooless]

I can say 2+2=5 is true without being a laier.

Damned postmodernist

 

[BostonJack]

As the population of ASR grows, it will keep asymptotically approaching the whole population

Which implies that eventually a prominent ASR member will be U.S. President. Or, at least, Sec'y of State.

 

[Walter]

I am wondering what posts you find "combative" or 'insulting"? Would you care to share any in particular? Perhaps you would prefer to paraphrase to protect the guilty.

There are many that are a bit combative, but there have have been 4 or 5 in the last two months or so which I considered insulting, which is more than I personally saw in the entire previous year. However, I am also reading more threads now which is why I was asking whether this was on the uptick or if it was just my perception. While I have no desire to protect the guilty, I do prefer not to repeat the names of the people who were wronged, but the posts that come to mind and which I could locate are:

A new poster's first post, now deleted:
"With all due respect I believe that <very helpful manufacturer rep's name> is a liar." He also then went on to make more disparaging comments based purely on conjecture.

A new poster's 4th and so far last post, all of which had involved asking for help, towards one of the most helpful posters on the forum who had spent quite a bit of time trying to help him out--which is what made this reply so out of line: "Your answer is completely redundant and you don't know what you are talking about. Would be nice to get helpful answers on this forum."

Multiple posts by a new member now shown only as "Deleted member 27948" which appear to have either been deleted or reworded to be considerable softer, in which he basically said that everyone on this forum were incompetent when it came to math, and came just short of implying that he was the only smart person here. He actually showed the potential to be a welcome addition to the forum, if he could have kept his arrogance in check. In fairness, his writing reminded me very strongly of a very talented and somewhat well-known young software developer I used to work with who has mild to moderate Asperger syndrome, so he may have had a bit of an excuse--although I know from my coworker that he actually did know more or less that he was being a rude ass, he'd just always been allowed to get away with it due to his condition and his skills.

 

[tomtoo]

Damned postmodernist

Iam happy not to be a phylosoph.

 

[Walter]

But saying something that is not true and a lia is not the same. A lia means saying something not true even i know its not true. I can say 2+2=5 is true without being a laier.

Exactly! Even more to the point, saying "What you wrote is incorrect," while maybe not particularly tactful, would not be perceived as a personal attack by most emotionally stable people. Saying, "You are a liar" will be, as it is one. There are time when that is warranted, but on this forum only two come to mind (in my personal opinion):
1. The person is making untrue negative statements about someone else.
2. The person is knowingly advocating something that will result in harm to those who believe them and act upon what they are saying, whether it be physical, mental, or monetary harm.

 

[tomtoo]

Exactly! Even more to the point, saying "What you wrote is incorrect," while maybe not particularly tactful, would not be perceived as a personal attack by most emotionally stable people. Saying, "You are a liar" will be, as it is one. There are time when that is warranted, but on this forum only two come to mind (in my personal opinion):
1. The person is making untrue negative statements about someone else.
2. The person is knowingly advocating something that will result in harm to those who believe them and act upon whta they are saying, whether it be physical, mental, or monetary harm.

I can only say how we germans use the word lügner whats get translated to liar.

A lügner is someone that tells something against his own better knowing. If i as a german tell someone thats not true, i just say thats not right. If someone tells u= r/i i would say thats not true, but that would not implie that i think he is a liar. In germany liar is a hard word, you better not use it so easy.

 

[Willem]

Lying implies intent rather than just being wrong.

 

[tomtoo]

Lying implies intent rather than just being wrong.

Thx, that what i was like saying, with my humble english

 

[AdamG]

There are many that are a bit combative, but there have have been 4 or 5 in the last two months or so which I considered insulting, which is more than I personally saw in the entire previous year. However, I am also reading more threads now which is why I was asking whether this was on the uptick or if it was just my perception. While I have no desire to protect the guilty, I do prefer not to repeat the names of the people who were wronged, but the posts that come to mind and which I could locate are:

A new poster's first post, now deleted:
"With all due respect I believe that <very helpful manufacturer rep's name> is a liar." He also then went on to make more disparaging comments based purely on conjecture.

A new poster's 4th and so far last post, all of which had involved asking for help, towards one of the most helpful posters on the forum who had spent quite a bit of time trying to help him out--which is what made this reply so out of line: "Your answer is completely redundant and you don't know what you are talking about. Would be nice to get helpful answers on this forum."

Multiple posts by a new member now shown only as "Deleted member 27948" which appear to have either been deleted or reworded to be considerable softer, in which he basically said that everyone on this forum were incompetent when it came to math, and came just short of implying that he was the only smart person here. He actually showed the potential to be a welcome addition to the forum, if he could have kept his arrogance in check. In fairness, his writing reminded me very strongly of a very talented and somewhat well-known young software developer I used to work with who has mild to moderate Asperger syndrome, so he may have had a bit of an excuse--although I know from my coworker that he actually did know more or less that he was being a rude ass, he'd just always been allowed to get away with it due to his condition and his skills.

Just FYI. When you see the user name Deleted Member ******, this is a former member who politely asked Amir to delete their accounts. They decided to leave for various reasons. Some are nudged in that direction. It is a courtesy Amir grants in an act of mutual respect that you don’t see elsewhere. Now you know.

 

[voodooless]

Multiple posts by a new member now shown only as "Deleted member 27948" which appear to have either been deleted or reworded to be considerable softer, in which he basically said that everyone on this forum were incompetent when it came to math, and came just short of implying that he was the only smart person here.

Look how smart he is now... or maybe he is, not wasting his time anymore with us plebs...

Lying implies intent rather than just being wrong.

If you call somebody a liar, you better be sure about it. If somebody gets offended then, so be it!

 

[Walter]

Just FYI. When you see the user name Deleted Member ******, this is a former member who politely asked Amir to delete their accounts. They decided to leave for various reasons. Some are nudged in that direction. It is a courtesy Amir grants in an act of mutual respect that you don’t see elsewhere. Now you know.

Thanks for the info. I was not sure if that was something initiated by the member or by Amir. I was actually sorry to see this particular member leave. He sounded as if he could have provided some valuable insights if he could have just accepted that he was not always indisputably right. His tone in his last few posts that I read had softened considerably, so I was surprised when I saw his account was deleted.

 

[killdozzer]

The German language has a lot of wonderful words that describe both the objective and subjective reality of a situation in a single astute observation.

Edit: Schadenfreude is another nice one

This one is becoming ever more important:

fremdschämen​

Like when watching Qanon member "explaining" something.

 

[xaviescacs]

Which implies that eventually a prominent ASR member will be U.S. President. Or, at least, Sec'y of State.

Asymptotically means that never reaches 100%

 

[tomtoo]

Monkeys, guinea pigs and native English speakers have very similar brain responses to speech sounds.​

Monkeys, guinea pigs and native English speakers have very similar brain responses to speech sounds

Speech sounds elicit comparable neural responses and stimulate the same region in the brain of humans, macaques and guinea pigs, a multidisciplinary group of University of Pittsburgh researchers reported in the journal eNeuro today. The finding could help pave the way for better understanding...

medicalxpress.com

Maybe thats why i see sometimes things different? Hey iam joking.

 

[JaccoW]

Lying implies intent rather than just being wrong.

And it's a whole lot harder to prove.

 

[thewas]

This one is becoming ever more important:

fremdschämen​

Like when watching Qanon member "explaining" something.

Funnily though the German youth word of the year 2021 is the English word cringe though.

Youth word of the year (Germany) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[rdenney]

I try to follow the sage advice given by the great Dave Barry.

Anybody who quotes Dave Barry gets a Like from me.

Rick “I’m not making this up” Denney

 

[voodooless]

Funnily though the German youth word of the year 2021 is the English word cringe though.

Youth word of the year (Germany) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That fact is cringe in itself.. I my mind really not a word that seems to fit and sound well between German words. I wonder what the pronunciation will be..