Gustard R26 R2R DAC with roon

[Jimbob54]

only two detailed youtube reviews and unit cost ~$1600

Too many and too much.

 

[15Khz]

Different, VERY encouraging, but too soon to tell. . . .
Just took delivery of R26. Some first, very prelim impressions.
Starting in a main rig (not my desktop - to follow later): Krell 320e, PSAudio BHK Sig Pre, Wilson bookshelf's, Roon Nucleus
Prior and A/B dac's - Bryston, Oppo Sonica, Esoteric, SMSL m400 AKM chip
Unboxing - weighty and well built unit just from feel of it. good finish work, screws, feet, etc. very solid. like it.
Agree that front aesthetics more akin to 90's set-top box rather than serious piece of audio gear. Prefer X26Pro casework. Not my 'look' but bought it for go, not show.
Display and menu are. . . . .bad. Highest brightness, 8, barely visible in well lit or sunny room. And its OLED - good contrast but more limited brightness.
Menu font is needlessly small and compressed - crazy difficult to read. And why with all that screen real estate?! Big miss, Gustard.
You'll need a 5-year surgical residency at Johns Hopkins - toggling and selecting menu items is micro-surgery.
Lettering just so small and jammed (crammed) into ridiculously small area. For what?
Scroll wheel is not my pref either - too sensitive, lacks traction, and awkward spinning small wheel w finger . . . just not an easy, tactile nav tool.
Powering up - my US shipped unit arrived set to 220 so be sure to reset two/both power switches in rear to 110 if US.
I'll pause here to say, despite a very unfriendly user interface, things get more interesting when we hit play
But first, getting connected.
Downloaded GR26 Owner Manual and boy is it minimal. Tells you nothing about getting connected to network, Roon, USB devices. . . . .or pluto and St. Louis for that matter.
Your flying solo on connectivity matters.
Fortunately Roon will eventually find the R26, or at least that was my 'whew' experience.
Running Roon nucleus. Connected R26 via LAN to Nucleus. Nucleus didn't see the R26 when searching for devices after multiple tries and toggles, so rebooted Nucleus and Roon, waited and waited, and finally Roon found the Gustard R26.
Have no idea what others were saying about what works and not in NOS, DSD - just tried and failed w menu setting enough times until, voila, music.
And here it does get damn interesting.
Note this is out of box, stone cold, R2R music play so take my early impressions w a grain of salt until I have the 100-200 burn in hrs in rear view mirror.
And, just as important, hear how it plays with other audio gear.
All that said, first listening impressions tell me this is an entirely different piece of gear from my chip dacs. And not subtly so.
My chip dacs can be very detailed, articulate, and dynamic. Soundstage can be fairly expansive (depending on gear). Sometimes they can even be 'musical' re. flow and timbre. . . . . until I hear the R26. Mind you, out of the box.
There is just soooo much musical info being pumped out. Top end, crazy detailed and articulate. Mid is still congested. And at first all sounded thin w little bottom end.
Then I switched to music w more bass end. . . . and the bass lept out at me. Again, not (hopefully yet) as articulate as I would want, but the R26 can definitely do bass.
I realize I'm burying the headline just now getting to what makes this unit so 'promising'. I'm no pro reviewer but I'll try to describe what I'm hearing bc it is quite special.
First is the amazing separation and detail of notes, vocals, instruments - you start (need that burn in) to hear an amazing amount and separation of musical info. Top to bottom, side to side. Some is scary 'from nowhere' clear, detailed, never heard it before. Top end definitely not rolled off as some suggest w R2R - this is a detail monster, same as the reviewer said. Just as important, that detail has no sharp, glassy, glaring edges. Just massive amounts of musical info. What I'm waiting for from burn in is to hear this info flow more freely - for now it feels like the R26 is trying to push too much info through too small a pipe. If that makes any sense. Waiting for a wider pipe from dac to speakers.
Second is what I think most of us are looking for from an R2R - analog, tube-like air and decay around the notes. Out of box I'm definitely hearing early hints of that floaty 'air'. Just hoping after burn in that will come on even more. Will even say that after listening now for ~3hrs. I'm confident this piece of kit will deliver just what I was looking for. And at a great price too. Pontus II? Haven't heard it so no clue how they(or any other R2R) compare. And, of course, system matching, your room, and your music are huge variables too.
So, long note on first impressions but I too was scouring internet and youtube for reviews other than the 2 we've all seen. One thing I will totally agree with from these reviews, this dac is a detail monster. I can't imagine it leaving any 1's or 0's on the disc.
I'll try to write more, if nobody is minding the long-winded notes, after burn-in.
Day one - buyer's remorse or grin?
100% grin so far. Had no Idea my dac's were leaving so much music behind on the disc.
Yeah, Gustard R26 is the real deal.
YRMV

I'm considering the Gustard (vs the Topping D90SE+Pre90), and I appreciated your thoughts on it. I've only just returned to the hifi world after a long hiatus. It was nice to see the endless arguments of "analog is better than digital" put to rest, but they seem to have been replaced with R2R vs Sigma-Delta. Oh well. I get the "measurements matter" argument. Snake oil is snake oil ($500 ethernet cables? Really?) But there's something a bit off about the application of these arguments to ladder DACs. Anyway, I'll hope you'll post an extended review. I assume you are not using a preamp. Is that right? The Gustard seems to have a really well-implemented output stage, and I'm hoping to skip the preamp if I go down this route. Cheers!

 

[BDWoody]

But there's something a bit off about the application of these arguments to ladder DACs.

Not really.

Same complete lack of evidence to support the claims made.

Don't fall into the trap... Wait for real evidence.

 

[15Khz]

What measurements do you rely on for choosing your speakers?

 

[misterdog]

Don't fall into the trap... Wait for real evidence.

Gustards own measurements if that is what you mean.

If only SINAD rules the world then this product will be derided by many on here.
Having never heard an R2R DAC, I remain open minded.
Though in the land of sigma-delta DACS I own an SMSL M400, I then bought a gustard X16 which has some better measures, notably the multitone test in the bass region.
Yet I prefer the M400.

I suspect no manufacturer will submit an R2R DAC to this site, due to the 'bias' based on SINAD numbers.
Shame really.

 

[BDWoody]

Gustards own measurements if that is what you mean.

No, evidence that one format inherently sounds better than the other.

 

[misterdog]

Listening to my turntable rig gives me equal pleasure to that of my digital rig.

There are many people like myself that think the same, that is the evidence.
We all know which 'measures' better though.

 

[BDWoody]

Listening to my turntable rig gives me equal pleasure to that of my digital rig.

There are many people like myself that think the same, that is the evidence.
We all know which 'measures' better though.

There you've got real differences to hear. We aren't talking about different formats

I believe the differences attributed to R2R DACs are primarily legend based.

 

[misterdog]

AKM chips V ESS chips ?

 

[Lordcloud]

No, evidence that one format inherently sounds better than the other.

There's no such thing as one anything universally sounding better than another thing. So there's no evidence to present. There are objective measurements, which gives us information as to how a signal leaves a device. Once it's gone through other devices and into the air, objectivity is gone.

I have a D90LE, going through a LA4, and into a pair of AHB2s. I have a modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda. The dacs sound very different, with me having an overall preference for the D90, as it's much cleaner and clearer. However, the Pagoda isn't a bad DAC in the slightest, and in some ways (soundstage depth and the overall sensation that instruments have weight to them) it's better to me than the D90.

I want a system that is objectively transparent. That's why I have the components that I have. But it doesn't make it better, universally.

 

[BDWoody]

I have a D90LE, going through a LA4, and into a pair of AHB2s. I have a modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda. The dacs sound very different, with me having an overall preference for the D90, as it's much cleaner and clearer.

Determined through uncontrolled listening?

 

[Lordcloud]

Determined through uncontrolled listening?

I'm not making a recommendation for you so that you can take my recommendation and then go out and spend your money on what I've told you is best, better, or different. I'm simply saying that after having my dac in my system for years, using a track list that I've heard countless times.......when other dacs are introduced, I can personally tell a difference in the sound. As can the non audiophile people that have also heard the two in my system. The Balanced Pagoda isn't as clean, isn't as clear.

You don't have to believe me. I'm not asking you to. I'm simply saying that's what I heard.

 

[BDWoody]

Determined through uncontrolled listening?

You don't have to believe me. I'm not asking you to. I'm simply saying that's what I heard.

So, that's a yes that it was uncontrolled.

I'm simply saying that after having my dac in my system for years, using a track list that I've heard countless times.......when other dacs are introduced, I can personally tell a difference in the sound. As can the non audiophile people that have also heard the two in my system.

Ok, but have you ever tried to do this when you or your friends aren't peeking, and with the levels matched? Differences tend to disappear. DACs have to be pretty bad for them to be easily identified one from another. That's what I am looking for when I ask for evidence. Can you even differentiate them, let alone show a consistent preference if there are some basic controls implemented. Claims abound, evidence not so much.

 

[Lordcloud]

So, that's a yes that it was uncontrolled.



Ok, but have you ever tried to do this when you or your friends aren't peeking, and with the levels matched? Differences tend to disappear. DACs have to be pretty bad for them to be easily identified one from another. That's what I am looking for when I ask for evidence. Can you even differentiate them, let alone show a consistent preference if there are some basic controls implemented. Claims abound, evidence not so much.

I feel like you're having a difficult time understanding what I've said.

I don't particularly care if you are ok with my methodology or my findings. It's completely irrelevant what you think or feel about what I've said. You don't have to believe me. You don't have to take my word for it. We don't know each other. Regardless of the title of this forum....we aren't scientists, conducting tests using any amount of scientific procedures. We're people giving our opinions on things and experiences. Take them or leave them.

I am here because I value objectivity. Again, this is why I have the components that I do. However.....if someone says that two dacs of different topology can't and don't sound different.... particularly when one is tubed buffered.........then why do I care what they have to say about audio? Particularly when we're talking about subjective experiences. And again....once the audio leaves the transducer, it is all subjective.

Did I level match? Yes. Did I do blind testing? Yes. Was I rigorous in my testing? No. Did I do this over several days? Yes. Was I able to hear a consistent difference? Yes. Do you have to accept my findings? Absolutely not. Does it matter if you do? Absolutely not.

 

[misterdog]

Full suite of measures here from L7 Audiolab.

Measurements & Review of Gustard R26 Network R2R DAC - L7Audiolab

台式设备 很久很久以前歌诗德的老黄就说要开发一台分立式R2R解码.实话说我对分立式R2R是没有什么期待的……这玩意即使强如hifiman在没有经验的情况下也是开发的一地鸡毛。但是经过长达两年的折腾之后，老黄还是拿出了这台 Gustard R26

www.l7audiolab.com

 

[Snoopy]

DSD 68dB?

 

[Sentinel]

'anyone could or should agree with'?
You make a habit of thinking and feeling for everyone else on this planet. 'word salad'?? Guess everyone's entitled to opinion, but two points I ask to consider: only two detailed youtube reviews and unit cost ~$1600. So good intent was to give firsthand user review from regular guy who's not online reviewer. So much for good intent. Second, I usually don't post comments bc how critical n contentious people can be on internet. Thanks for reminder Dr. Critical. I'll pass on that final review I hoped to share and just go back to reading, not writing. You do no service for readers and gear lovers Jimbo54. Be kind.

BBG I enjoyed your account of initial impressions and would love to hear your follow-up review.

 

[Nikos-1980]

Hey everyone.
Long time reader, first time posting.
I have the Pioneer U-05 and thinking of getting the Gustard R26. In fact for a moment I was about to get the external clock as well.
But then I read the whole thread and started having second thoughts, especially after the "okay" rating of l7audiolab review.
So is the R26 the deal or not?
Thanks in advance

 

[Veri]

But then I read the whole thread and started having second thoughts, especially after the "okay" rating of l7audiolab review.
So is the R26 the deal or not?

The subjective reviews say it's all right. The objective reviews show it is in fact, not a great deal..

 

[joseG86]

I had a similar experience when I purchased the Hifiman EF400 headphone R2R DAC/amp.
After reading about the wonders of R2R I imagined I hear a difference. Till I began to upsample everything in Roon to the same sample rate and Bitrate etc.

There might have been tiny differences that you would only notice in A/B switching but for normal music listening I couldn't tell the difference to my CXN V2 dual Wolfson DAC and Smsl D300 ROHM DAC chip.

I appreciate what is possible with old Technology like R2R but at the same time it just tells me that we reached a level of quality with whatevers chip is used that is already good enough.

Its still unbelievable what I read especially at head-fi about R2R DACs .. bit like the DAC is a person that does its job with feelings and confidence like an experienced artist.

Its still unbelievable what I read especially at head-fi about R2R DACs .. bit like the DAC is a person that does its job with feelings and confidence like an experienced artist.

Sad but true, it's like every device has a soul and a purpose to exist and it is not what it really is, plastic and metal haha