I want to learn about streamers and DACS. Also suggestions about what to buy.

[Chromo]

Hi all!

Came across this forum, and there's so much knowledge, i am eager to learn and don't want to believe i want to understand and learn, want to know.

1: I want to improve my sound.

2: I have done the acoustic treatment possible in my house. I can only do so much.

3: My equipment today is: Speakers: Focal Aria 906. AVR: Yamaha 880. Streams music from a PS4 Pro.

Speaker specs:
Type: Two-way bass-reflex floorstanding loudspeaker
Speaker drivers 61/2" (16.5cm) Flax bass - midrange
1" (25mm) Al/Mg TNF inverted dome tweeter
Frequency response (+/- 3dB) 55Hz - 28kHz
Low frequency point - 6 dB 47Hz
Sensitivity (2.83V / 1m) 89.5dB
Nominal impedance 8 Ohms
Minimum impedance 4.6 Ohms
Recommended amplifier power 25 - 120W
Crossover frequency 2800Hz

4: Will i get increase of sound quality by getting a: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...ifier-ncore-nc252mp-2x250w-4-ohm-p-18419.html

5: Would this unit improve the sound quality: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/open...2x-es9038q2m-32bit-768khz-dop256-p-18111.html

6: The Yamaha A:880 a few specs: DAC Burr-Brown 384 kHz / 32-bit.

160 W (4 ohms, 0.9% THD)
Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven)	100 W (8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
Maximum Effective Output Power (1kHz, 1ch driven) (JEITA)	160 W (8 ohms, 10% THD)
Dynamic Power per Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms)	130 / 170 / 195 / 240 W

 

[voodooless]

1: I want to improve my sound.

What’s wrong with it. Going on a wild goose chase replacing random components that have very little objective impact on sound quality is a rather pointless and expensive expertise.

So find out the issues first. You said you’ve treated your room? What did that do? Do you have any measurements of your room in the current state? That should give a good indication of where the improvements are to be found. Usually, that will not be in amps, and definitely not in DACs.

Your Yamaha has room correction. Do you use it? If not, give it a try. Even with treatment it should give a noticeable improvement. Yamaha room correction isn’t deemed best in class, but from I’ve seen can do a comparable job if correctly applied.

 

[Chromo]

What’s wrong with it. Going on a wild goose chase replacing random components that have very little objective impact on sound quality is a rather pointless and expensive expertise.

So find out the issues first. You said you’ve treated your room? What did that do? Do you have any measurements of your room in the current state? That should give a good indication of where the improvements are to be found. Usually, that will not be in amps, and definitely not in DACs.

Your Yamaha has room correction. Do you use it? If not, give it a try. Even with treatment it should give a noticeable improvement. Yamaha room correction isn’t deemed best in class, but from I’ve seen can do a comparable job if correctly applied.

Hi!

Thank you for answering.

I use YPAO. it does help. I have sorted the most obvious reflection-probelms, but not made any deeper measurements.

Actually my initial thought is, will a dedicated streamer increase sound quality over a PS4? If so why or why not?

 

[Vacceo]

Streamers are typically a matter of convenience: you prefeer this or that interface, elements such as remotes, footprint of the device... Same goes for CD players.

DAC´s at this time and age are a solved problem unless there is a terrible fault in its construction (which is typically not the case). Your Yamaha has a fully competent dac, which is what ultimately turns the digital signal into analog. To that dac, it does not matter if the zeros and ones are sent by a PS4, an Nvidia Shield or any other device: digital is digital and I doubt the PS4 alteers that digital signal.

If you want to really change the sound, your first step should be the speakers; and honestly, your Focals are not bad speakers at all. Since what you ultimately listen to is the sound produced by the speakers in your room, that is the element that has the largest variation. EQ is, then, the other element that can change quite a bit, and unless you´re wanting to go for Dirac or Audyssey, another AVR will not provide a drastically better base performance.

I´d add a subwoofer to cover the lower frequencies. Integrating a subwoofer takes some time and effort, but since you´ll also be using the PS4, you´ll see that your sound quality while playing improves quite a bit.

 

[Chromo]

Streamers are typically a matter of convenience: you prefeer this or that interface, elements such as remotes, footprint of the device... Same goes for CD players.

DAC´s at this time and age are a solved problem unless there is a terrible fault in its construction (which is typically not the case). Your Yamaha has a fully competent dac, which is what ultimately turns the digital signal into analog. To that dac, it does not matter if the zeros and ones are sent by a PS4, an Nvidia Shield or any other device: digital is digital and I doubt the PS4 alteers that digital signal.

If you want to really change the sound, your first step should be the speakers; and honestly, your Focals are not bad speakers at all. Since what you ultimately listen to is the sound produced by the speakers in your room, that is the element that has the largest variation. EQ is, then, the other element that can change quite a bit, and unless you´re wanting to go for Dirac or Audyssey, another AVR will not provide a drastically better base performance.

I´d add a subwoofer to cover the lower frequencies. Integrating a subwoofer takes some time and effort, but since you´ll also be using the PS4, you´ll see that your sound quality while playing improves quite a bit.

Hi!

Thank you so much for the thorough answer.

Would adding a power-amp adding any noticeable difference? My Yamaha has pre out.

 

[Vacceo]

Hi!

Thank you so much for the thorough answer.

Would adding a power-amp adding any noticeable difference? My Yamaha has pre out.

Your Yamaha has an adequate power to handle your speakers. Amps are an important consideration depending of how much sound pressure you want out of your speakers, and chances are your room is not gigantic, hence, the Yamaha should give you quite good volume, probably enough to even hurt you.

Your other venues of upgrade are adding extra channels to the AVR, since it can manage multichannel. If you use just two speakers, my order of upgrade would go center and subwoofer first and then, the surround speakers.

 

[Chromo]

Hi!

I do have the Focal matching center and a full surround system.

So is a conclusion that adding DACs and power amps just not any good idea?

When are these products viable?

Or is it just a silly market?

Well i do have the option of getting a newer amp, but maybe that's just a waste of money?

 

[JustJones]

Hi!

I do have the Focal matching center and a full surround system.

So is a conclusion that adding DACs and power amps just not any good idea?

When are these products viable?

Or is it just a silly market?

Well i do have the option of getting a newer amp, but maybe that's just a waste of money?

Adding a power amp would make sense if your front main speakers were a difficult load or your room is large and the needed SPL causes clipping or protection to kick in, your speakers doesn't appear to be difficult but that's why some add them. The rated output spec most of these AVR post is for 2 channel driven and drops the more speakers you connect. It looks like your AVR has a built in streamer but if you like the PS4 interface and features better then use that but I've never had a streamer make any difference in sound quality unless applying EQ or filters .

 

[BDWoody]

Hi!

I do have the Focal matching center and a full surround system.

So is a conclusion that adding DACs and power amps just not any good idea?

They are not likely to make any difference to what you are hearing. It looks like you have adequate power for your needs, so you are fortunate that you can just focus on your speakers/room, which is where meaningful differences are easily found.

When are these products viable?

Or is it just a silly market?

Well i do have the option of getting a newer amp, but maybe that's just a waste of money?

When you need more power, or features offered by one box over another it makes perfect sense to change. You may just want something that looks nicer, or has a higher bling factor. The market counts on people believing higher price almost always leads to better sound quality, and that's just not the case.

 

[Chromo]

They are not likely to make any difference to what you are hearing. It looks like you have adequate power for your needs, so you are fortunate that you can just focus on your speakers/room, which is where meaningful differences are easily found.



When you need more power, or features offered by one box over another it makes perfect sense to change. You may just want something that looks nicer, or has a higher bling factor. The market counts on people believing higher price almost always leads to better sound quality, and that's just not the case.

 

[Chromo]

Thank you for the answer.

Well you put it well.

Getting things just for the sake of it is what i want to avoid. Hence my original question.

Why i started thinking about changing amp was when i came across this: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-yamaha-rx-a1080-avr.9090/

That is the same Line of AVR's i have but two models above. I have 880, there's 980 and that is 1080. If i don't misunderstood it's not the best AVR?

So started thinking about maybe change my AVR to a more modern one. Mines 10 years old.

That is why is got to think about just getting a power amp for listening to music in 2Chan. But if the better performance is in audible it is a waste of money.

Also i use my PS4 for movies and games, it produces lot's of noise and i getting very warm, that's why started to look at Streamers for pure music listening.

So maybe a streamer is a good choice for convenience?

 

[Apesbrain]

So maybe a streamer is a good choice for convenience?

I think so, and not that expensive. A WiiM Pro ($150) can be connected digitally to your AVR and use its DAC section*. The WiiM app will give you easy access to internet radio stations, online music services, and your local files if on a networked PC running a server. If you have an iDevice, you can use AirPlay to cast local music from your mobile device to the WiiM.

When I had a pair of good bookshelf speakers like your Focals, I found the greatest improvement in perceived sound quality came when I moved them onto quality stands which positioned them away from the rear and side walls.

*Or spend a little more for the WiiM Pro Plus and have the option of using its excellent internal DAC section.

 

[Chromo]

I think so, and not that expensive. A WiiM Pro ($150) can be connected digitally to your AVR and use its DAC section*. The WiiM app will give you easy access to internet radio stations, online music services, and your local files if on a networked PC running a server. If you have an iDevice, you can use AirPlay to cast local music from your mobile device to the WiiM.

When I had a pair of good bookshelf speakers like your Focals, I found the greatest improvement in perceived sound quality came when I moved them onto quality stands which positioned them away from the rear and side walls.

*Or spend a little more for the WiiM Pro Plus and have the option of using its excellent internal DAC section.

Hi!

Will: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/open...2x-es9038q2m-32bit-768khz-dop256-p-18111.html

have any impact over https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/streamers/wiim-pro-plus-p-18078.html

it has better specs, but are they audible?

If i connect it to an AVR, will the the DAC make any sense? Won't it use the DAC in my AVR?

I'm not sure i understand how that works.

 

[Willem]

No decent streamer has a sonic signature. The only thing that is relevant is app support (will my streamer support the source platform ,i.e. Spotify, Tidal, Tuneinn etc) that I use, and convenience.
If you want real sonic improvement, go for two (or more) subwoofers and proper room equalization such as Multi Sub Optimizer (not easy but very effective). How big is your room? Do you have a proper measurement microphone like a Umik-1?

 

[Chromo]

No decent streamer has a sonic signature. The only thing that is relevant is app support (will my streamer support the source platform ,i.e. Spotify, Tidal, Tuneinn etc) that I use, and convenience.
If you want real sonic improvement, go for two (or more) subwoofers and proper room equalization such as Multi Sub Optimizer (not easy but very effective). How big is your room? Do you have a proper measurement microphone like a Umik-1?

HI!

My room is 36m2.

Do have a room mic. Use it in my home-studio. Try to learn how i can get it to use in my TV-room.

 

[Willem]

The classic combo is a Umik-1 and REW software. Measurements will show you that the room is the biggest problem, and in any system.

 

[Willem]

My room is 36m2.

That is not large, but not tiny either.

 

[Apesbrain]

I'm not sure i understand how that works.

If you were to purchase the WiiM Pro Plus, you'd have two different ways to connect it to your AVR:

1. Using an optical or coaxial digital cable, you can connect a WiiM digital output to a digital input (green box) on your AVR (illustrated below)
2. Using a standard RCA interconnect, you can connect the WiiM analog output to an analog input (red box) on your AVR.

The first case uses the DAC in your AVR; the second the DAC in the WiiM. You can try both ways and decide if you have a preference.

The Audiophonics unit performs the same function as the WiiM, but note that it lacks digital outputs compatible with your AVR. It has a screen which you might find useful, and it plays some additional file formats which are not of any sonic benefit.

 

[Chromo]

If you were to purchase the WiiM Pro Plus, you'd have two different ways to connect it to your AVR:

1. Using an optical or coaxial digital cable, you can connect a WiiM digital output to a digital input (green box) on your AVR (illustrated below)
2. Using a standard RCA interconnect, you can connect the WiiM analog output to an analog input (red box) on your AVR.

View attachment 366438

The first case uses the DAC in your AVR; the second the DAC in the WiiM. You can try both ways and decide if you have a preference.

The Audiophonics unit performs the same function as the WiiM, but note that it lacks digital outputs compatible with your AVR. It has a screen which you might find useful, and it plays some additional file formats which are not of any sonic benefit.

Thank you so much for clarifying.

 

[ViperDom]

Your #4 & 5 will not make an appreciable difference in SQ.

Before swapping out gear (especially when you have decent gear) it is most productive to:
- Optimize Room setup (Speaker & Listener Placement)
- Optimize EQ

Too evaluate the above:
- Post a pic of the room for us to consider and provide some basic dimensions.
- Purchase a UMIK-1. Measure the frequency response of desired listening potions with REW(free). Post here.