GR Research LGK 2.0 Speaker Review (A Joke)

[sarumbear]

My current main system is based on a 4", a little bigger than a 3", but the difference is huge, subjectively and also by measurements, of course...

The piston area difference between a 3" and a 4" is big. As the parts of the driver that does not directly generate the SPL on both drivers have almost the same area for both size divers, a 1" difference makes a big difference to the cone area that generates the SPL.

 

[René - Acculution.com]

There is no gross or any discrepancy for that matter. My impedance measurements are simply higher resolution than what he and others post. Rick for example post the impedance during the build and it is smooth as he shows:

Further, the frequency response matches his. You want to explain how one gets that to match but with a faulty build?

I gave the kit to Rick to build because he is extremely methodical. He followed their instructions to the letter and beyond such as rounding over the edges. If Rick can't build this kit properly, nobody can. I don't know how anyone with a straight face can complain that something is wrong here.

All of this aside, your larger point, I agree and I tried. The problem is, the other side doesn't want to have anything to do with us. Here is the interaction:

-----------
On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 1:33 PM Amir Majidimehr <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi there. This is Amir from Audio Science Review. I am getting interest from my membership to test your new Little Giant speakers. Are you able to loan me an assembled speaker for testing? Doesn't have to look pretty unless you want it that way.

Thank you,
Amir

-----------

Hey Amir,

We have already measured and tested them. We really don't need measurement confirmation.

But if you have a high quality audio system that you can use to actually listen to them as designed, then we might be able to work something out. And then you can measure them all over the place. I am not concerned about how they measure. Like I said. We've done that.

Danny Richie

-----
So I answer:
From: ASR Forum Admin
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2022 1:40 PM
To: 'Danny Richie' <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: New Message From GR-Research

Thank you for the response Danny. Your measurements are gated so lack resolution in lower frequencies. And at any rate, are not compliant with CEA-2034 which allows research into audibility of measurements to be applied to them. You also have not shown any distortion measurements. These are the reasons members are looking for me to measure them.

As to listening to them, I always do that. My system for testing desktop speakers is RME ADI-2 DAC driving Purifi based amplifier. These are world-class products. If they are to be tested as stand-alone speakers in a 2-channel system, then I use a Mark Levinson Reference amplifier ($20,000) driven by Matrix Audio streamer ($2,000). Is there a specific requirement you have here that owners need to have to buy them?

Amir

-----
From: Danny Richie <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2022 9:48 AM
To: ASR Forum Admin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: New Message From GR-Research

Hello Amir,

| Thank you for the response Danny. Your measurements are gated so lack resolution in lower frequencies.

The levels of resolution in that range are perfectly fine. We can take a near field response of the driver and the port to really see the roll off. As I am sure you know, ranges below 200Hz are really more a factor of the application and room that they are used in. So while I could provide a measured response down low, and so could you, what really happens in that range is really a variable that we can't control.

| And at any rate, are not compliant with CEA-2034 which allows research into audibility of measurements to be applied to them.

I am not at all concerned and neither are our customers.

| You also have not shown any distortion measurements.

Distortion measurements are of little to no value and the most misunderstood of all measurements. Audible differences in low distortion devices are difficult to hear at best, and nowhere near the real distortions introduced by stored energy of a driver, frame ringing, cabinet resonances, and even crossover parts.

| These are the reasons members are looking for me to measure them.

Not too many of your members are our customers, and most of our actual customers don't think very highly of your site and its objectives and beliefs.

| As to listening to them, I always do that.

Well, when you reviewed our base level X-LS Encore you only listened to one speaker. Our customers thought that was a bit of a joke.

| My system for testing desktop speakers is RME ADI-2 DAC driving Purifi based amplifier. These are world-class products. If they are to be tested as stand-alone speakers in a 2-channel system, then I use a Mark Levinson Reference amplifier ($20,000) driven by Matrix Audio streamer ($2,000). Is there a specific requirement you have here that owners need to have to buy them?

There are no requirements for enjoying music or our products. Our customers enjoy our products in budget level systems in their garages to six figure systems set up in treated rooms and everything in between.

I do expect higher standards for reviewers though. Those that are really giving feedback as to how good a product sounds should be able to hear and discern what a product can do versus others.

My concern isn't so much with just the gear you use, but the listening room set up, room treatment, speaker placement, and quality of everything in the chain including cables. If you are going to review our products it would be nice if you can really hear what we have worked so hard to create.

As we both know, we are from different camps (so to speak) and have very different experiences and conclusions. You specifically are one of the guys that I would love to have over for a visit. We can hang out, listen to music, eat some Texas BBQ, and bridge some gaps. You can come find out if there is some validity to what I say, or if I am completely crazy and delusional. I bet your followers would love to hear all about that visit.

What do you say to that?

Danny

-----
My final answer to him:
On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 3:12 PM ASR Forum Admin <[email protected]> wrote:

I am unclear why you are giving me all these arguments Danny. If you think anything I write is of no value to you, then that is all you needed to say. I will communicate that to my membership and consider the matter closed.

As to coming over, I love your food and hospitality whenever I have been to Texas, this exchange notwithstanding.

Amir

----

I don't know how you could ask me to do more than I already have.

Hi Amir. Wow, okay, didn't know this communication. Guess there is not much more to do. It would, as you mention, have been better if Danny had sent speakers to review, but he seemingly couldn't care less. Anyway, keep up the good work.

 

[Thomas savage]

There is no gross or any discrepancy for that matter. My impedance measurements are simply higher resolution than what he and others post. Rick for example post the impedance during the build and it is smooth as he shows:

Further, the frequency response matches his. You want to explain how one gets that to match but with a faulty build?

I gave the kit to Rick to build because he is extremely methodical. He followed their instructions to the letter and beyond such as rounding over the edges. If Rick can't build this kit properly, nobody can. I don't know how anyone with a straight face can complain that something is wrong here.

All of this aside, your larger point, I agree and I tried. The problem is, the other side doesn't want to have anything to do with us. Here is the interaction:

-----------
On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 1:33 PM Amir Majidimehr <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi there. This is Amir from Audio Science Review. I am getting interest from my membership to test your new Little Giant speakers. Are you able to loan me an assembled speaker for testing? Doesn't have to look pretty unless you want it that way.

Thank you,
Amir

-----------

Hey Amir,

We have already measured and tested them. We really don't need measurement confirmation.

But if you have a high quality audio system that you can use to actually listen to them as designed, then we might be able to work something out. And then you can measure them all over the place. I am not concerned about how they measure. Like I said. We've done that.

Danny Richie

-----
So I answer:
From: ASR Forum Admin
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2022 1:40 PM
To: 'Danny Richie' <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: New Message From GR-Research

Thank you for the response Danny. Your measurements are gated so lack resolution in lower frequencies. And at any rate, are not compliant with CEA-2034 which allows research into audibility of measurements to be applied to them. You also have not shown any distortion measurements. These are the reasons members are looking for me to measure them.

As to listening to them, I always do that. My system for testing desktop speakers is RME ADI-2 DAC driving Purifi based amplifier. These are world-class products. If they are to be tested as stand-alone speakers in a 2-channel system, then I use a Mark Levinson Reference amplifier ($20,000) driven by Matrix Audio streamer ($2,000). Is there a specific requirement you have here that owners need to have to buy them?

Amir

-----
From: Danny Richie <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2022 9:48 AM
To: ASR Forum Admin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: New Message From GR-Research

Hello Amir,

| Thank you for the response Danny. Your measurements are gated so lack resolution in lower frequencies.

The levels of resolution in that range are perfectly fine. We can take a near field response of the driver and the port to really see the roll off. As I am sure you know, ranges below 200Hz are really more a factor of the application and room that they are used in. So while I could provide a measured response down low, and so could you, what really happens in that range is really a variable that we can't control.

| And at any rate, are not compliant with CEA-2034 which allows research into audibility of measurements to be applied to them.

I am not at all concerned and neither are our customers.

| You also have not shown any distortion measurements.

Distortion measurements are of little to no value and the most misunderstood of all measurements. Audible differences in low distortion devices are difficult to hear at best, and nowhere near the real distortions introduced by stored energy of a driver, frame ringing, cabinet resonances, and even crossover parts.

| These are the reasons members are looking for me to measure them.

Not too many of your members are our customers, and most of our actual customers don't think very highly of your site and its objectives and beliefs.

| As to listening to them, I always do that.

Well, when you reviewed our base level X-LS Encore you only listened to one speaker. Our customers thought that was a bit of a joke.

| My system for testing desktop speakers is RME ADI-2 DAC driving Purifi based amplifier. These are world-class products. If they are to be tested as stand-alone speakers in a 2-channel system, then I use a Mark Levinson Reference amplifier ($20,000) driven by Matrix Audio streamer ($2,000). Is there a specific requirement you have here that owners need to have to buy them?

There are no requirements for enjoying music or our products. Our customers enjoy our products in budget level systems in their garages to six figure systems set up in treated rooms and everything in between.

I do expect higher standards for reviewers though. Those that are really giving feedback as to how good a product sounds should be able to hear and discern what a product can do versus others.

My concern isn't so much with just the gear you use, but the listening room set up, room treatment, speaker placement, and quality of everything in the chain including cables. If you are going to review our products it would be nice if you can really hear what we have worked so hard to create.

As we both know, we are from different camps (so to speak) and have very different experiences and conclusions. You specifically are one of the guys that I would love to have over for a visit. We can hang out, listen to music, eat some Texas BBQ, and bridge some gaps. You can come find out if there is some validity to what I say, or if I am completely crazy and delusional. I bet your followers would love to hear all about that visit.

What do you say to that?

Danny

-----
My final answer to him:
On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 3:12 PM ASR Forum Admin <[email protected]> wrote:

I am unclear why you are giving me all these arguments Danny. If you think anything I write is of no value to you, then that is all you needed to say. I will communicate that to my membership and consider the matter closed.

As to coming over, I love your food and hospitality whenever I have been to Texas, this exchange notwithstanding.

Amir

----

I don't know how you could ask me to do more than I already have.

Self indulgent to the point of the grotesque.

Thanks for this amirm , AND thanks for not leading with it. Many would ! .

We are on mission here , almost as satisfying as the new Top Gun ' maverick ' movie on the big screen .

Ultimately you've gone out of your way to potentially help their business but have met with the kind of defensiveness one would expect from the knowingly deluded. If they didn't know and believed truly in their products they'd send the speaker and argue the toss later or simply belive it would succeed. This response is telling , just too weak ass to own up to anything, weak and over invested in self indulgent bullshit .

Super job , they hang by their own petard.

 

[Thomas savage]

Is there a reason to stick with this driver? Seems to me keeping the box is more valuable than the driver.

Especially when it was so well constructed..

 

[More Dynamics Please]

I am not at all concerned and neither are our customers.

This line from Danny to Amir could pretty much serve as the company motto or slogan for GR Research.

 

[sofrep811]

I went to his Youtube page regarding this speaker and made a comment asking for his input on this review.... and he deleted it within a half hour. Must be nice to sit in a steel house throwing stones at glass houses.

 

[Chester]

I personally have no interest at all in bif, and also listen at very low SPL in a small dedicated room and hence do not need any big multi way system. Simply in my experience with small full range drivers 3" is too small.
My current main system is based on a 4", a little bigger than a 3", but the difference is huge, subjectively and also by measurements, of course...View attachment 211980

I think your speaker positioning may be your limiting factor here

 

[Joe Smith]

Tiny dual driver, pretty crappy enclosure, gee what a surprise it does not sound good! Honestly. I'll put my old KEF 15.2s up against these any day...

 

[Thomas savage]

This line from Danny to Amir could pretty much serve as the company motto or slogan for GR Research.

Theres a asteroid coming , it will wipe out all life on earth ...,

...I am not at all concerned and neither are our customers...

 

[Toni Mas]

I think your speaker positioning may be your limiting factor here

My listening conditions are nothing special, classic armchair listener at less than 2m from the speakers.
I admit that those tiny 3 inchers might sound ok for a desktop guy listening at 1m or less, and boundary effects of the desktop and rear wall will make these sound fuller than Amir's measurements might suggest, but i am not at all a desktop fan...

 

[Thomas savage]

You put ' research ' in your company name your claiming to be on the edge of human understanding and certainly the ability to manufacture.

Anyone who has a primary instinct to attack these results needs to look at themselves. It's dosnt matter if there is a issue with the enclosure or a nocking wire ...

The company has marketed themselves as being cutting edge , as ' knowing more ' being at the limit of human understanding.

That's why they have called themselves GR Research, its absolute shite and they should be burnt and no quarter given .

It's cynical and exploitative beyond decency, yet amirm actually treated them with consideration they clearly don't deserve .

The company should be called .. ' DIY fun ' n ' laughs ' ..

Wtf.

 

[Katji]

Thanks for this Amir. So, this begs the question as to whether GR Research speaker upgrades are worth the $$. I'm interested in the upgrade for my Focal Aria 906's with a price tag of $460. Maybe Amir would be willing to measure them for me, hint, hint ;-)

This thread is all the measurement you need.

 

[Doodski]

You put ' research ' in your company name your claiming to be on the edge of human understanding and certainly the ability to manufacture.

Anyone who has a primary instinct to attack these results needs to look at themselves. It's dosnt matter if there is a issue with the enclosure or a nocking wire ...

The company has marketed themselves as being cutting edge , as ' knowing more ' being at the limit of human understanding.

That's why they have called themselves GR Research, its absolute shite and they should be burnt and no quarter given .

 

[Katji]

called themselves GR Research

The bullshxt starts right there.
I can manage [experimental music] most of the time, but [research] in the company name, i might feel like saying "How about completing your research before you sell your kit?"

 

[Steven Holt]

To be fair it only uses a tiny 3" full range driver. If all you want to do is listen at low volume, and have a really small room, it'll do fine. If your definition of hifi requires the ability to go loud and have lots of bass then that will create a skew against speakers like this and it's happened several times before in Amir's subjective reviews. If you can't go loud with bass he doesn't like it.

I mean high-pass it at 120Hz add a subwoofer and it'd do a lot better.

I've owned plenty of speakers in my lifetime, and I can tell u this : if u have to work hard or start 'adding things' to make a speaker sound good, there is something fundamentally wrong with that speaker. You need to buy another speaker.

 

[Thomas savage]

The bullshxt starts right there.
I can manage [experimental music] most of the time, but [research] in the company name, i might feel like saying "How about completing your research before you sell your kit?"

The only ' research ' going on is

A. How can we use copy to intimate people and create influence

B. Can the ill gained proceeds pay the mortgage.

Clearly the answer is yes on both, fabulous, let's end the ' research ' now .

Jobs done .

Hard to walk away when your stealing a living , so I'm told.

 

[Soniclife]

You put ' research ' in your company name your claiming to be on the edge of human understanding and certainly the ability to manufacture.

Maybe the company name GR Dumpster fire was already taken?

 

[MattHooper]

-----
So I answer:
From: ASR Forum Admin
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2022 1:40 PM
To: 'Danny Richie' <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: New Message From GR-Research

Thank you for the response Danny. Your measurements are gated so lack resolution in lower frequencies. And at any rate, are not compliant with CEA-2034 which allows research into audibility of measurements to be applied to them. You also have not shown any distortion measurements. These are the reasons members are looking for me to measure them.

As to listening to them, I always do that. My system for testing desktop speakers is RME ADI-2 DAC driving Purifi based amplifier. These are world-class products. If they are to be tested as stand-alone speakers in a 2-channel system, then I use a Mark Levinson Reference amplifier ($20,000) driven by Matrix Audio streamer ($2,000). Is there a specific requirement you have here that owners need to have to buy them?

Amir

(bolding mine)

Hmmm...meanwhile when someone asked him about Amir's review in recent youtube comments, Danny responded: "He contacted us wanting that product to review, but he wasn't going to listen to it, so I wasn't interested."

I have to say, while I don't have any particular comment on the performance or test of the GR speaker, they way he handled this both pre and post review is quite fishy and evasive.

 

[ROOSKIE]

The only ' research ' going on is

A. How can we use copy to intimate people and create influence

B. Can the ill gained proceeds pay the mortgage.

Clearly the answer is yes on both, fabulous, let's end the ' research ' now .

Jobs done .

Hard to walk away when your stealing a living , so I'm told.

Not a fan of this speaker.

I don't perceive GR as a rip off company either.
Business and money making for 99% of all of us is a huge compromise between real truth and making the mortgage.
I have never met anyone, ever who has means who did not make some, if not most (or even all)of their wealth doing something that would not look good under the spotlight.

GR seems to have struck a chord with some folks, better take a minute to see why his is triggering you and if it isn't actually in harmony with some of your own choices and decisions.

This is a tough world. I'd rather work in Audio in compromised way doing some good and sometimes grabbing the dough, vs doing the same thing in quite a few less interesting fields.

Anyway not deff defending Danny per say, rather suggesting we all try to be more genial and tolerant if only to encourage a little more middle ground and to accept reality. He is a mixed bag and that said nowhere near the worst case scenario in hifi, not even remotely - slightly close to that.

 

[Somafunk]

I have never met anyone, ever who has means who did not make some, if not most (or even all)of their wealth doing something that would not look good under the spotlight.

Says far more about your circle of friends/acquaintances than you think