GR Research LGK 2.0 Speaker Review (A Joke)

[Newman]

Please summarise it.

 

[Futility]

Please summarise it.

It's a short 6 minute video - worth a watch.

TL;DR Let's stop being assholes and be civil and amicable to each other despite irreconcilable differences.

 

[Doodski]

Please summarise it.

Danny is turning a new leaf, stopping any interpersonal antagonizing, focusing on positively making a difference to the audio profession and apparently he feels poorly about labelling @amirm as, "Moe." Danny wants to focus on his business operation and be a good human being is basically what the video is about. Good for him but those cable lifters in the video are disturbing to say the least if not voodoo magic.

 

[amirm]

Danny is turning a new leaf, stopping any interpersonal antagonizing, focusing on positively making a difference to the audio profession and apparently he feels poorly about labelling @amirm as, "Moe." Danny wants to focus on his business operation and be a good human being is basically what the video is about. Good for him but those cable lifters in the video are disturbing to say the least if not voodoo magic.

You skipped over the start of the video where he states in black and white that subjectivists listen to music. Objectivists do not. I take 100 insults to me over that clearly incorrect and improper assertion.

 

[Doodski]

You skipped over the start of the video where he states in black and white that subjectivists listen to music. Objectivists do not. I take 100 insults to me over that clearly incorrect and improper assertion.

Yes, I forgot that part.

 

[Doodski]

You skipped over the start of the video where he states in black and white that subjectivists listen to music. Objectivists do not. I take 100 insults to me over that clearly incorrect and improper assertion.

I made a clear and concise comment for the GR Research YouTube webpage that you do listen to music for testing. So perhaps he can drop that generalization too with the new leaf he claims to have turned over. I'm still miffed at the tiny woofer LGK speakers for ~$450 to ~$1013 as finished product but we'll see what he does there in the future. Those ~$50 speaker connectors are still a sore point too.

 

[sofrep811]

You skipped over the start of the video where he states in black and white that subjectivists listen to music. Objectivists do not. I take 100 insults to me over that clearly incorrect and improper assertion.

Exactly. Comparing objectivists to Flat Earth folk? Uhhh…. isn’t it the other way around by basic logic?

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Exactly. Comparing objectivists to Flat Earth folk? Uhhh…. isn’t it the other way around by basic logic?

Just so dumb.

 

[Futility]

If your goal is to be civil and amicable, don't start off by calling other people "assholes". Jim

Exactly But you have to give him credit for stating "Mea Culpa"

 

[mhardy6647]

I made a clear and concise comment for the GR Research YouTube webpage that you do listen to music for testing. So perhaps he can drop that generalization too with the new leaf he claims to have turned over. I'm still miffed at the tiny woofer LGK speakers for ~$450 to ~$1013 as finished product but we'll see what he does there in the future. Those ~$50 speaker connectors are still a sore point too.

Yeah, but "he" (GR Research) isn't the only company - by far - selling single-driver loudspeakers at (from my perspective) ridiculous prices.
Y'all likely know some of the other culprits.

EDIT: Oh, and his ~$50 speaker connectors would probably be ~$500 speaker connectors from most of the big name boutiques.

 

[amirm]

Exactly. Comparing objectivists to Flat Earth folk? Uhhh…. isn’t it the other way around by basic logic?

It is. He somehow thinks if he hears something in uncontrolled sighted test, that is "scientific evidence" that it is real. Therefore anyone who doesn't believe it, doesn't believe in science! He has taken the absurdity of that kind of testing to an entirely new level.

 

[rubley00]

I only recently came across his videos, and he perplexes me. When he's talking about crossovers, drivers, directivity, he clearly understands what he's talking about, and uses measurements to confirm what he's trying to achieve (yes, his methods are debatable, but at least he's taking measurements). But then he simultaneously talks about nonsense like PVC insulation affecting sound quality.

His video where he connects speaker cables to the antenna input of an FM receiver to try to prove his point is just so misguided its hard to take it seriously. I enjoy his tear down videos, but its hard to get through them when its sprinkled with extra nonsense.

 

[amirm]

I only recently came across his videos, and he perplexes me. When he's talking about crossovers, drivers, directivity, he clearly understands what he's talking about, and uses measurements to confirm what he's trying to achieve (yes, his methods are debatable, but at least he's taking measurements). But then he simultaneously talks about nonsense like PVC insulation affecting sound quality.

His video where he connects speaker cables to the antenna input of an FM receiver to try to prove his point is just so misguided its hard to take it seriously. I enjoy his tear down videos, but its hard to get through them when its sprinkled with extra nonsense.

Well said. When he first got on youtube (in Ron's channel), it was all about those xover mods so I too watched them with interest. Then like a light switch, he got into selling voodoo stuff and despite tons of negative comments then, he keeps doubling down.

 

[Doodski]

he simultaneously talks about nonsense like PVC insulation affecting sound quality.

This seems to follow the weirdO urban myth circulating decades ago that TPFE (Teflon) insulation acts as a shock absorber for electrons thus changing the sound.

His video where he connects speaker cables to the antenna input of an FM receiver to try to prove his point is just so misguided its hard to take it seriously.

DittO!

 

[Futility]

Amir, without sounding apologetic, you have to understand what kind of a person Danny is.

He's "old school" (whatever that might mean), a cowboy, if you will. His approach (however flawed) is empirical, not scientific or even technical.

Humor me for a minute. Imagine, you were tasked with a job of designing a new speaker. For the sake of argument, let's say it's an open baffle speaker.

A person of science might use software to simulate how different sized or shaped baffles would affect a potential sound output. Your approach absolutely makes sense.

Danny, on the other hand, would just build 2-3-4-? different baffles and (whether by his imperfect measurments or purely by ear) would determine which sounds better. His approach is empirical vs theoretical. Sometimes (I'll leave others to be the judges) he succeeds and makes a good or great product. Who's right? I don't know.


I own quite a bit of speakers, designed by Danny. I bought into hype early, back in the days of AV123. Back then Cherry-veneeres X-LS Encore was selling for $250 for a pair and it looked like a 1000 dollars. After that line arrays were all the rage and I spent all my savings at a time to get a pair of B-stock LS6's that was touted to be the best speaker ever under $10K for a third of price.

Now, I do appreciate his speakers being decent, though not perfect... But I also sure don't by the snake oil peddling and his marketing bullshit. If it can't be measured, it doesn't exist. I'm science, not faith based.

Please forgive my ranting.

 

[Mark_A]

You skipped over the start of the video where he states in black and white that subjectivists listen to music. Objectivists do not. I take 100 insults to me over that clearly incorrect and improper assertion.

Maybe I am wrong, but I thought he meant that to evaluate equipment, some people do listening tests, and others do measurements with instruments. In the end, after we make our choices, we all listen to music.

Personally, I am in the middle because although I do believe all differences can in theory be measured with instruments, I don't think that all of the needed tests have been developed, and it may be impractical to develop all instrument tests needed to measure everything at every combination of frequencies, etc. Just knowing which measurements are important, and which ones aren't, requires some judgement or subjectivity.

I think the key to knowing if listening tests are useful (and to what extent), is to emphasize that blind testing must be done, and such testing must be supervised by someone who knows the process and mathematics of statistical sampling (confidence interval, margin of error, etc).

 

[Mark_A]

He's "old school" (whatever that might mean), a cowboy, if you will. His approach (however flawed) is empirical, not scientific or even technical.

I would say his approach is new school. He knows a lot about the technology of audio equipment (compared to most snake-oil salespersons), but he is seeing other companies charge outrageous prices for cables, Ethernet switches, etc, and he wants a piece of that pie.

 

[Doodski]

it may be impractical to develop all instrument tests needed to measure everything at every combination of frequencies, etc.

Transistors and the peripheral components are more than capable of reproducing full bandwidth 20HZ to 20kHz all at the same time and can be measured for linearity. Linearity in this instance being the input to the output signal integrity. It's not difficult for these devices to do this. Measuring that is not magical or out of reach too. It's clear and decisive technology that we use these days for this sort of measurements. It has been done for decades with older and now newer instruments.

EDIT: So measuring speakers with electronics is more than a capable system.

 

[Music1969]

I wonder if he deleted his video mainly because he now realises measuring AC cable interference with one end unpligged, is valid, as amirm demonstrated in video.

And Danny was laughing at Amir about it in his video.

So it's better for Danny to remove the video.

 

[Doodski]

I would say his approach is new school. He knows a lot about the technology of audio equipment (compared to most snake-oil salespersons), but he is seeing other companies charge outrageous prices for cables, Ethernet switches, etc, and he wants a piece of that pie.

If he does an around about like Schiit did and gets with a honest and integrity based business plan he will be OK but if he pursues the snake oil and greedy cash grabs I am going to be a nemesis.