GoldenSounds passes apparently ABX test for DACs (NOT Really)

[Coverpage]

Maybe the price has something to do with sales numbers rather than the adherence to a target on a specific test fixture ?

Well, there's the demand curve to define the optimal price. Surely it can't be outsold by other inferior headphones at a higher price point.

 

[solderdude]

Dan got in the business of selling headphones to make money.
I'm sure if he could sell them for say ... $ 500 he would sell a lot more of those models.
Of course this has nothing to do with the discussed GoldenSounds filter test he obviously passed.

 

[Coverpage]

Dan got in the business of selling headphones to make money.
I'm sure if he could sell them for say ... $ 500 he would sell a lot more of those models.
Of course this has nothing to do with the discussed GoldenSounds filter test he obviously passed.

Of course, there are other factors contributing to the sales of headphones. What was mentioned is that Goldensound has bad headphones because they're not Harman-tuned. My reply is perhaps snarky, but a reminder that if it were indeed enough, there should be more demand for DCA expanse and stealth headphones, which knock it out of the ballpark in terms of these measurements. Even analyzing qualitative data in reviews online and aggregating it will show how the perceived sound, at best, isn't better than other worst-measured headphones.

Pertaining Chord Dave, I'm not sure about the measurements, you may be right.

But being an older DAC that needed to be different at its insanely high pricepoint, I wouldn't be surprised if the measurement is correct.

Edit: Pertaining DCA pricing, there's a pricing strategy that aims to optimize revenue based on the demand curve (which he would have to estimate), so it's certainly deliberate.

 

[amirm]

And yet the DCA Expanse and Stealth, which measure better than most other headphones, are not the clear winners in terms of sales.

How do you know their sales numbers??? Dan tells me these products have been hugely successful to them, proving that compliance with Harman target makes a significant difference.

 

[Coverpage]

How do you know their sales numbers??? Dan tells me these products have been hugely successful to them, proving that compliance with Harman target makes a significant difference.

That would genuinely be a surprise. So the stealth and expanse are outselling Audeze and Hifiman flagships?

 

[solderdude]

What was mentioned is that Goldensound has bad headphones because they're not Harman-tuned.

Susvara would be perfectly suited for the test. One of the few headphones that has response exceeding 30kHz.

There will always be people piling on expensive headphones that don't meet this or that standard. That has nothing to do with DCA, its expected/estimated sales numbers nor its pricing.

Headphone measurements are indicative for certain aspects at best.

 

[Coverpage]

Susvara would be perfectly suited for the test. One of the few headphones that has response exceeding 30kHz.

Pretty amazing he can hear all that.

There will always be people piling on expensive headphones that don't meet this or that standard. That has nothing to do with DCA, its expected/estimated sales numbers nor its pricing.


Headphone measurements are indicative for certain aspects at best.

True, but I believe that the relative demand for headphones that do not use Harmon tuning is just one example of how adherence to Harmon tuning is insufficient to define a good headphone. Perhaps the way I argued that out is not the best.

Sharing an annecdote. I own an E3, and I believe it is far superior to the stealth or expanse, which I was considering purchasing when looking for a flagship. I ended up buying the Susvara. I honestly wouldn't buy the stealth and expanse, even if it were the same price as E3. It's really not just tuning.

Since it has already been extensively discussed, I will not repeat the argument for why frequency response alone is insufficient to model the headphone as a system.

 

[solderdude]

Pretty amazing he can hear all that.

He can't.
What it does show is that treble quality is actually good and 22kHz is not an issue and given the fact that he could distinguish between the different files and those differences lie well above the hearing limits of 'audiophiles'' The plot shows that the used headphone is suited for the job nothing more than that. Harman tuning is not essential for this test, good treble response is.
There are other headphones that also could be used successfully. Chances are GoldenSound 'knows' this headphone inside-out or just wanted to show he has flagship stuff lying around.

 

[Coverpage]

He can't.
What it does show is that treble quality is actually good and 22kHz is not an issue and given the fact that he could distinguish between the different files and those differences lie well above the hearing limits of 'audiophiles'' The plot shows that the used headphone is suited for the job nothing more than that. Harman tuning is not essential for this test, good treble response is.
There are other headphones that also could be used successfully. Chances are GoldenSound 'knows' this headphone inside-out or just wanted to show he has flagship stuff lying around.

Yup, I understand. Still, he can hear the elevated 20 kHz from one of the reconstruction filters.

What is more intriguing is the use of popular but less well-measuring DACs. Like R2R DACs, etc. See where is the threshold where we can't discern between DACs.

 

[solderdude]

filterless R2R DACs are not audible transparent. The fact that some people prefer that is another matter and is not shown by the discussed test.

 

[amirm]

What is more intriguing is the use of popular but less well-measuring DACs. Like R2R DACs, etc. See where is the threshold where we can't discern between DACs.

He has had that ABX box for a while. The fact that we haven't seen him pass any such blind tests means that he likely can't pass them. What we see here may be the best he can do.

 

[DEALUX]

And yet the DCA Expanse and Stealth, which measure better than most other headphones, are not the clear winners in terms of sales.

Frequency response measurements through a sine sweep or chirp and its adhenrence to the Harman target are not all there is to a pair of headphones.

Those headphones have very weird interactions with actual human heads (i.e. lots of positional variance) and seal also appears to be an issue.

It's not the measured frequency response. It's the FR you get on your head that matters and it's not 1:1 with the rig.

 

[yys310]

lazy topping/SMSL "acoustic transparent" DAC filter
lol

 

[Soria Moria]

And yet the DCA Expanse and Stealth, which measure better than most other headphones, are not the clear winners in terms of sales.

Sales isn't just dictated by performance. It's heavily based on marketing and brand recognition. Lots of bad headphones sell well and worse yet to people that abhor trying to fix them with EQ. If sales makes the winner then some obscure headphone I have never heard of wins. Or maybe Airpods?

 

[Sokel]

Sales isn't just dictated by performance. It's heavily based on marketing and brand recognition. Lots of bad headphones sell well and worse yet to people that abhor trying to fix them with EQ. If sales makes the winner then some obscure headphone I have never heard of wins. Or maybe Airpods?

Yep.
When it comes to sales it's not about items.It's about stories.
And that applies to everyone.

 

[MacClintock]

And yet the DCA Expanse and Stealth, which measure better than most other headphones, are not the clear winners in terms of sales.

Frequency response measurements through a sine sweep or chirp and its adhenrence to the Harman target are not all there is to a pair of headphones.

Besides the high price and the design that may not appeal to everybody, there is the fit issue that many people report, i.e. the frequency response at the ear drum might be quite different from the one measured on the rig and changes dramatically with just adjusting the cups a little bit. So quite a few people auditioning these headphones were dissapointed.

 

[KiyPhi]

The test reminds me of the High-Res vs CD one Amir once did. True, he did pass it and could discern the two music files, proven by a positive ABX test. But he did it by cranking up the volume and comparing the noise floor at the end of the tracks, so nothing that has anything to do with a musical quality difference of any of these formats. Thus, probably one has to pay attention to not make "passing an ABX test" a fetish, it might not prove anything relevant at all.

Especially given how hard measuring hearing ability over 8kHz even is. Most professional audiometry gear doesn't go that high for a reason, you have to use something special. An ABX test only shows he heard a difference between the two samples. That very well could have been distortion caused by the specific setup.

 

[raest]

Yep.
When it comes to sales it's not about items.It's about stories.
And that applies to everyone.

indeed. there's even a good book about it, The Society of Dreams or something like that

Chances are GoldenSound 'knows' this headphone inside-out or just wanted to show he has flagship stuff lying around.

considering how he prominently displayed his high end Focal towers (Sopra 3?) throughout his video, i'd be fairly confident the latter was definitely a pretty important factor to feed his boundless ego

 

[stumat]

Especially given how hard measuring hearing ability over 8kHz even is. Most professional audiometry gear doesn't go that high for a reason, you have to use something special. An ABX test only shows he heard a difference between the two samples. That very well could have been distortion caused by the specific setup.

Interesting that you mention 8kHz because that was my limit on my hearing test yesterday. In three weeks time there will be a more thorough test which will introduce me to v expensive hearing aids.

 

[Keith_W]

Especially given how hard measuring hearing ability over 8kHz even is. Most professional audiometry gear doesn't go that high for a reason, you have to use something special. An ABX test only shows he heard a difference between the two samples. That very well could have been distortion caused by the specific setup.

First time I have heard of this. Could you explain why, please?