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Genelec, how great are they really? The best?

Tangband

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What about Kef LSX? I have these as my main system for TV and Spotify Connect, and am very happy with them. Reichart/Stereophile reviews them (quite positively!) and you can access the review from the Genelec review mentioned earlier. KEF LSX I are heavily discounted, at the moment, as II has just come out... Unlike with the Genelec, you are not limited to 100% analog & have more connectivity options - they have inbuilt AMP, DAC, DSP (for newbies...), Optical in (for TV...), and Spotify Connect. So if you fancy a simple "all in one" solution they are, perhaps, worth considering.
 

Sokel

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Isn't that chart for listening distance, the room size shouldn't dictate your listening distance. I think it's should be better to have a big room and a small listening triangle to maximize the ratio of direct sound vs reflective sound.
In my case this would seem as if I did something bad and someone grounded me to sit alone in a corner :).
Aside from joke,my distance is close to 3m,so...
 

Tangband

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In my case this would seem as if I did something bad and someone grounded me to sit alone in a corner :).
Aside from joke,me distance is close to 3m,so...
People are using the Genelec chart to point out ( wrongly ) that their speakers are only for desktop use.

If the same chart was done for Elac standmounts, Revel m105-107, Kef ls50, ls50 Meta and ls50 W then noone would use them in a normal living room. But people do, and seems rather satisfied with their sound. And they didnt buy a floorstander for the same money because they thought ( rightly ) that the sound was better from those smaller speakers….
 

goat76

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In my case this would seem as if I did something bad and someone grounded me to sit alone in a corner :).
Aside from joke,my distance is close to 3m,so...

Oh, I see, you have a sea of lava in the middle of your listening room that is stopping you from moving closer to the speakers? :)
 

Sokel

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Oh, I see, you have a sea of lava in the middle of your listening room that is stopping you from moving closer to the speakers? :)
That's not far from reality,replace the lava with discomfort for small spaces and you get it right :)
 

YSC

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In my case this would seem as if I did something bad and someone grounded me to sit alone in a corner :).
Aside from joke,my distance is close to 3m,so...
that's for direct sound dominance, so it's kind of just for the purpose that if you want to do monitoring where direct sound dominance is preferred, you go for thoses speakers at the listening distance, beyond that maybe it's more close to the in room target curve, where you enjoy music as you like without problem, just let the sound blend together and should be fine withouth directivity error.

at home use I always only read the SPL chart
 

Eetu

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I have the Genelec M030, if you are lucky you can find a used pair for a lot less than the 8030C/G3 and they are close SQ-wise. I have them high passed at 100Hz and xo'd to dual KEF T2 subs with MiniDSP Flex. I have a listening distance of a bit under 3m and they sound great, never remember seeing the red clipping light turn on.
 

Sokel

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at home use I always only read the SPL chart
Which also puts me between the same models.
Each room with it's compromises,I have long accepted that.
 
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AdamG247

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Something we rarely see in this Audio industry. Insanely high prices that actually deliver insanely high performance. In this very rare case you do get what you pay for. A no compromise design driven by pure performance goals. For ASR advocates the “Holy Grail” of precision audio science engineering where performance is Everything full stop. :cool:
 

YSC

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Which also puts me between the same models.
Each room with it's compromises,I have long accepted that.
does it? I assume that 8341A with >102db peak should be enough for 3m? and I think that's for a single monitor not stereo so you in reality got more headroom
 

Sokel

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does it? I assume that 8341A with >102db peak should be enough for 3m? and I think that's for a single monitor not stereo so you in reality got more headroom
Normally yes,it should be more than enough.But I'm always in the safe side and worst case scenarios so I would prefer some 6db headroom.
All of that is theoretical for me for of course as I have chosen another way in the excising room.
I do plan for my actual living room though,not smaller in size,about 300m³ of volume too but there looks matter too.
So...
 

YSC

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Normally yes,it should be more than enough.But I'm always in the safe side and worst case scenarios so I would prefer some 6db headroom.
All of that is theoretical for me for of course as I have chosen another way in the excising room.
I do plan for my actual living room though,not smaller in size,about 300m³ of volume too but there looks matter too.
So...
right, thought for me 104db peak is alreayd way louder than what I would consider sensible in apartment, or even with family members, bass is another issue but then when I wanted deep bass playing loud, some subwoofers probably is a better option.
 

DSJR

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For pauper penny pinchers like me looking at used examples, what about the earlier box shaped Genelec models (that Behringer ripped off not too badly wither)? I know they may not be as advanced technically as the current curvy models, but how might they compare with the sub $/£1,000 active 'wonder boxes' that Amir and Erin have reviewed and tested? Sorry if this question has already been answered before.
 

RobL

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For pauper penny pinchers like me looking at used examples, what about the earlier box shaped Genelec models (that Behringer ripped off not too badly wither)? I know they may not be as advanced technically as the current curvy models, but how might they compare with the sub $/£1,000 active 'wonder boxes' that Amir and Erin have reviewed and tested? Sorry if this question has already been answered before.
I had 1032A’s (built 2007) I bought second-hand before my current 8361A’s. The new speakers are an improvement, but diminishing returns for sure. The 1032’s (with eq) are definitely not embarrassed by 61’s.
 
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GM3

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Reading the comments, it's really hard to put things in perspective... Lots of info to assimilate! o_O

No, not really. The smaller Genelecs are still expensive. You use the 8010A as an example, but that's a tiny speaker that only exists to be portable and fit on space constrained desks. It has practically no bass with 67hz(-6dB). Distortion on it is already going crazy at 86dB, which is not very loud. Even if you listen as low as 75dB you'd still be hitting that all the time. At further than 1m, it only gets worse.

So yeah, for the 3 inch woofer Genelec 8010A... Looking at the figures, even if crossed over at 80Hz, does seem like 80-200 Hz would be riddled with distortion... Wow... even 400Hz is above 1%... So yeah... Hmm... I guess it's way too compromised to be a 'proper' speaker.. Especially for $700!

BUT... That's still 86dB... The listening impressions:
Genelec 8010A Speaker Listening Test
I placed the 8010A on the left side of my monitor on my 5 inch high stand as I always do. First impression was superb: this thing has incredibly tonality with a warm sound that belies its small size. I know it is a cliché and I hate the term it is absolutely unbelievable how much bass comes out of this speaker. In comparison, it made my Neumann KH80 DSP sound dull. Track after track in my play list sounded superb. Excellent tonality, detail and dynamics. This is no flat sounding studio monitor.

There is however a major flaw: hit anything with deep bass and the 8010A will complain with the worst crackle you can imagine. It goes from amazing to wow, this thing just broke! Strangely, I could not filter out the lows enough to get rid of this effect while preserving that gorgeous amount of bass.

If you are using the 8010A for pro work (mixing) you should be aware of its warmer tilt and perhaps correct for that.
And again with 1-2 subs and crossover 80Hz, it should alleviate the issue... :rolleyes: In like in a 9x18 room (on stands, 1-2 feet near rear wall, maybe ~6 feet apart, listening position 5-6 feet away, bit of room treatment), which would be maybe small/medium, with 2 subs, let's say in a condo environment where you wouldn't want to blast the speakers/subs anyhow... I have trouble doubting that it wouldn't be a killer setup... I mean, it's kinda scary looking at the distortion graphs, but they don't seem to correlate to Armin's listening impressions.

But the question is again; for the price, could you do better? For that high end sound.

Compare to the Kali LP6v2, at only $200. ~42hz(-6dB) so you actually get to hear the lower octave of typical music. And the measurements are almost as good with some very minor flaws like a bit more tweeter beaming above 15khz. But you also get <1% distortion at most frequencies at 86dB.

It is a bit different at the higher end because there's very few manufacturers that approach the precision of Genelec coaxials, so if you absolutely want the best you can't get it much cheaper. But still, many Kefs and the Kali IN-8 are better value even though they're not quite as good objectively.

With Genelec, you pay extra for that last bit of precision and for their reputation of quality and reliability, which vastly exceeds any Hi-Fi active manufacturer.

Yeah and as others have stated, diminishing returns... If you can for almost 1/2 price get a speaker which sounds almost as good, isn't that better...? Though that almost is what kills it, as 300 really isn't a lot of money in audio, add in subs to take care of the low end (bass difference becomes nearly irrelevant?), you might just end up saying; wow; although they measure similarly, that Kali does not (maybe it does?) sound [insert Armin's listening impressions] like the Genelecs...

But yeah at the end of the day, Genelecs do seem like great speakers, but, which maybe comes at a premium. Likely, at all price points, there would be very serious contenders; which would look better, maybe perform just as well or just slightly worse (or maybe even better objectively or given personal preference?), etc.. It's always that last 1-5% (diminishing returns) which ruins everything; sure instead of getting these $2000 speakers you could get these $1000 speakers which sound 95% just as good, it's just that you do really want that last 5% the $2000 speaker offers..... Hifi is pain.
 
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YSC

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For pauper penny pinchers like me looking at used examples, what about the earlier box shaped Genelec models (that Behringer ripped off not too badly wither)? I know they may not be as advanced technically as the current curvy models, but how might they compare with the sub $/£1,000 active 'wonder boxes' that Amir and Erin have reviewed and tested? Sorry if this question has already been answered before.
personally I do think they won't sound obviously different, maybe the coaxial models will be better as the vertical dispersion is also textbook good, but I bet it won't be by much, if budget is constrained and I need that volume, I don't think I would not opt for the older genelecs vs the SOTA ones
 

Tangband

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Reading the comments, it's really hard to put things in perspective... Lots of info to assimilate! o_O



So yeah, for the 3 inch woofer Genelec 8010A... Looking at the figures, even if crossed over at 80Hz, does seem like 80-200 Hz would be riddled with distortion... Wow... even 400Hz is above 1%... So yeah... Hmm... I guess it's way too compromised to be a 'proper' speaker.. Especially for $700!

BUT... That's still 86dB... The listening impressions:

And again with 1-2 subs and crossover 80Hz, it should alleviate the issue... :rolleyes: In like in a 9x18 room (on stands, 1-2 feet near rear wall, maybe ~6 feet apart, listening position 5-6 feet away, bit of room treatment), which would be maybe small/medium, with 2 subs, let's say in a condo environment where you wouldn't want to blast the speakers/subs anyhow... I have trouble doubting that it wouldn't be a killer setup... I mean, it's kinda scary looking at the distortion graphs, but they don't seem to correlate to Armin's listening impressions.

But the question is again; for the price, could you do better? For that high end sound.



Yeah and as others have stated, diminishing returns... If you can for almost 1/2 price get a speaker which sounds almost as good, isn't that better...? Though that almost is what kills it, as 300 really isn't a lot of money in audio, add in subs to take care of the low end (bass difference becomes nearly irrelevant?), you might just end up saying; wow; although they measure similarly, that Kali does not (maybe it does?) sound [insert Armin's listening impressions] like the Genelecs...

But yeah at the end of the day, Genelecs do seem like great speakers, but, which maybe comes at a premium. Likely, at all price points, there would be very serious contenders; which would look better, maybe perform just as well or just slightly worse (or maybe even better objectively or given personal preference?), etc.. It's always that last 1-5% (diminishing returns) which ruins everything; sure instead of getting these $2000 speakers you could get these $1000 speakers which sound 95% just as good, it's just that you do really want that last 5% the $2000 speaker offers..... Hifi is pain.
You are forgetting the second hand market , - how much money do you loose if you buy and own a pair of 8030c and then sell them after three years ?

If you DIY-build some loudspeakers and sell those after three years - how much do you loose in money ?

How much does a 8351 loose in value after three years of use , if you compare those with the latest Magnepans or Kef:s ?

After those questions, its clear that the selling price of a speaker only tells you a bit of the real cost for the owner, a lot like owning different cars . :)
 

RF Air

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Hi @GM3
I think it is great that you found speakers that provide enthusiasm. I am commenting because there were a lot of Kef Speaker mentions. I've owned Kef Ref Monitors and Home Theater Kef Refs for many years and have never been disappointed. Still feeling like you do, believing that they were the best investment to my setup. For many years they have performed and have more than justified their expense.

For some of us here, as Audiophile, we are constantly "courting" future brides for our Audio/Video equipment products. For me, I tested and listened for a long time and ran straight to the Altar for the Kef Speakers after the deals offered were too good to refuse. Today, I see the practicality of change, but being that I still love the Kef's, I am not likely to stray, I guess that could be considered "infidelity". ;)
 
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YSC

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Hi @GM3
I think it is great that you found speakers that provide enthusiasm. I am commenting because there were a lot of Kef Speaker mentions. I've owned Kef Ref Monitors and Home Theater Kef Refs for many years and have never been disappointed. Still feeling like you do, believing that they were the best investment to my setup. For many years they have performed and have more than justified their expense.

For some of us here, as Audiophile, we are constantly "courting" future brides for our Audio/Video equipment products. For me, I tested and listened for a long time and ran straight to the Altar for the Kef Speakers after the deals offered were too good to refuse. Today, I see the practicality of change, but being that I still love the Kef's, I am not likely to stray, I guess that could be considered "infidelity". ;)
and KEF did produce great speakers objectively, in both performance and look, their UniQ is really an achievement
 

Pearljam5000

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In the pro audio world they are one if not the most controversial studio monitors brands (just look at Gearspace)
You either love or hate them.
Most criticism is they sound analytical, clinical and "makes everything sound pretty"
 
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