Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)

[Descartes]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Genelec 8351B powered monitors (speakers). It was purchased used by a member and kindly drop shipped to me for testing. They cost US $3,995 each.

The 8351 is a thee-way speakers with the bass drivers hidden beyond the front baffle:

View attachment 129922

Naturally the back panel allows for fair bit of configuration changes:
View attachment 129923

I reset the speaker to factory settings and left all the dip switches off as you see. I used analog XLR input for all measurements and listening tests.

Measurements that you are about to see were performed using the Klippel Near-field Scanner (NFS). This is a robotic measurement system that analyzes the speaker all around and is able (using advanced mathematics and dual scan) to subtract room reflections (so where I measure it doesn't matter). It also measures the speaker at close distance ("near-field") which sharply reduces the impact of room noise. Both of these factors enable testing in ordinary rooms yet results that can be more accurate than an anechoic chamber. In a nutshell, the measurements show the actual sound coming out of the speaker independent of the room.

I performed over 1000 measurement which resulted in error rate of around 1%.

Testing temperature was around 65 degrees F.

Reference axis for measurements was the center of the tweeter (by eye).

Measurements are compliant with latest speaker research into what can predict the speaker preference and is standardized in CEA/CTA-2034 ANSI specifications. Likewise listening tests are performed per research that shows mono listening is much more revealing of differences between speakers than stereo or multichannel.

Genelec 8351B Measurements
As usual we start with our spin frequency response measurements:
View attachment 129926

I expected flat on-axis response and we essentially get that. There is a tiny bit of deviation in lower frequencies. I checked with Genelec and they looked up the measurements and they are ± 0.5 dB in that region. They show it a bit flatter than I do but I don't think either one of us know whose measurements are more correct. Regardless, the deviation is tiny and your room would overwhelm it in practice.

Directivity plots show off-axis that is similar to on-axis as it should be with coaxial drivers. This is in turn reflected in early-window response and predicted one:

View attachment 129927

View attachment 129928

I don't have near-field driver responses for you since it was silly to try to measure them on a coaxial driver.

Directivity plots of almost textbook perfect:

View attachment 129929

View attachment 129930

View attachment 129931

Edit: forgot to post the distortion graphs before:
View attachment 129970

View attachment 129971


Finally waterfall shows a few resonances:
View attachment 129932

Genelec 8351B Listening Tests
Given the size of this speaker and interest in membership to use them in high-fi and home theater applications, I decided to listen to them using my main system in far field listening. From the first few seconds I knew the sound was right and in need of no adjustment other dialing out the one room mode I have around 105 Hz. Track after track has excellent sound with image coming out of a circular halo around the driver. This is what you get when the speaker is well designed and relies on decades of research on what good sound is. All of my reference tracks that were curated on another system like it translated and delighted just as well.

Dynamics and Competition with Revel Salon 2
There has been a lot of talk about how these two speakers compare in the forum. I find the conversion odd as we are comparing a bookshelf speaker to a full blown tower. Still, I decided to compare the two since I own the Salon 2.

The Salon 2 quickly showed its difference in taller image that was not so focused and centered as the Genelec. This of course could be an optical illusion of the Genelec pulling your eye toward its tweeter. Still, I stand by this observation. The other thing that stood out was that the highs were more prominent in Salon 2 bringing more realism to high frequency notes. The Genelec sounded subdued in this front. Perhaps there is some peaking in my Salon 2 (have not measured it yet).

Where one could not doubt a difference was the power capability and bass extension. On sub-bass heavy tracks the Genelec held its own at lower volume. As you turned up the level the bass driver started to make this annoying "furrrrring" sound on heavy bass notes. You could easily hear it if you stood on top of the speaker and listened through the slot on top. Turn up the volume a bit more and the red clipping indicator would come on.

The Salon 2 was in entirely different class. Powered with 1000 watts of amplification, it provided a level of belly shaking that the 8351B could not even dream about reproducing. And it would keep getting louder and louder with zero distortion and strain. It simply was not a fair fight even though the 8351B tries hard.

Overall, the Salon 2 provides that large, dynamic sound that a statement speaker needs to provide to fill a large space. The 8351 is for more intimate and more focused listening.

Conclusions
Both objectively and subjectively the Genelec 8351B delivers. Near perfection as far as tonality and dispersion is provided. Its power delivery is the best of any Genelec speaker I have tested so far and is almost beyond what you may need. In my case though, I am used to much larger and powerful systems and there, the 8351B was limiting especially with its bass slot noise. So I would not position it above its class.

Overall, it is my pleasure to put the Genelec 8351B on my recommended list.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150

Thank you again for your review! How far were you sitting from the speakers? I am looking to replace my three front speakers with these. I sit about 10 feet from the front speakers

 

[james57]

Hi,

I'm planning to buy 8351s + GLM as desktop speakers in a treated room.
I'm currently using PSI A17 monitoring speakers.

As my PSIs are analog speakers I have no trouble connecting them to a USB DAC with XLR outputs. It makes volume control quite easy by the way.

However, the Genelecs require a digital XLR AES input and this where I'm lost.
I'm using an SSL 2 audio interface for the PSIs and it does not provide a digital output.

I only need to feed the Genelecs with my PC audio and an easy way to control the volume. What would be my options?
Or is it ok to feed the Genelecs with my SSL 2 analog output? I understand the audio feed will be converted from analog to digital, treated by the DSP, then converted back to analog from digital, which seems not the best scenario.

Thanks

Would be interesting to read your comparison as the PSIs and Genelecs are the extreme opposites design wise but both Should be accurate and both are loved /hated on Gearspace

Same here Hmast, just to better understand why you are parting from psi nothing wrong about that since both compagnies are usually very well regarded. I myself just got a pair of a23 and will complement them with a sub as I heard them in a production studio and thought the a23 were a bit thin in the low end. A17 are reference monitors. If this can I help I was talking to a supplier and very few of his clients are going the full digital way, just too expensive, little or no percieved improvements and your 8351 as mentionned can be used in A mode with the glm setting the filters once. You could even use them as a full vol ctrl.

 

[LTig]

I would say firstly, if you are planning on investing that much on the Genelecs, you may want to upgrade your existing interface. The SSL is good but you can get better performance. You might like the Neve 88M.

I would not count on an audible improvement of SQ when exchanging between decent electronic devices.

Answering your question, you can go analog into the SSL as it is connected via USB directly to your computer if I’m not mistaken.

Yep.

 

[EchoChamber]

Hi,

I'm planning to buy 8351s + GLM as desktop speakers in a treated room.
I'm currently using PSI A17 monitoring speakers.

As my PSIs are analog speakers I have no trouble connecting them to a USB DAC with XLR outputs. It makes volume control quite easy by the way.

However, the Genelecs require a digital XLR AES input and this where I'm lost.
I'm using an SSL 2 audio interface for the PSIs and it does not provide a digital output.

I only need to feed the Genelecs with my PC audio and an easy way to control the volume. What would be my options?
Or is it ok to feed the Genelecs with my SSL 2 analog output? I understand the audio feed will be converted from analog to digital, treated by the DSP, then converted back to analog from digital, which seems not the best scenario.

Thanks

For a purist setup, I’d recommend using a USB bridge instead of an external DAC. That will remove an A to D and D to A conversions from your signal. You can control volume at the speakers through the GLM kit with a wireless remote or wired volume knob (or through the GLM software). That’s how I have my SAMs setup using the Topping U90.

 

[Hmast]

Same here Hmast, just to better understand why you are parting from psi nothing wrong about that since both compagnies are usually very well regarded. I myself just got a pair of a23 and will complement them with a sub as I heard them in a production studio and thought the a23 were a bit thin in the low end. A17 are reference monitors. If this can I help I was talking to a supplier and very few of his clients are going the full digital way, just too expensive, little or no percieved improvements and your 8351 as mentionned can be used in A mode with the glm setting the filters once. You could even use them as a full vol ctrl.

Honestly I love my PSIs, it's just that I miss the 30-45hz range on some tracks. I have thought about A23s of course but at this amount of money I have carefully reviewed all possible plans. When reviewing measurments I found out that Genelec 83xx was outstanding plus GLM technology allows to correct frequency response which is something you cannot do easily with PSI. That said, I have used a DEQ2496 to correct the bass and the result was great. But... well this is about paying 8k+ EUR and I think Genelec offers something stellar on measurements with a DSP. It's also a bit "cheaper" too.

As for adding a PSI sub to the A17, I am tired of adding subs to 2 way speakers, working with their placement and phase correction. A 3 way speaker that can go down to 30hz for music is fine, I'm not asking for more as I can hardly hear below 30hz. If I want to add a sub one day I'll have some serious support from the GLM software which PSI doesn't have.

Finally, I'm not planning to get rid of my PSI. I still have to hear both brands in my room to truly compare but I expect both brands to be kind of complementary... while I confess expecting the Genelecs to be more accurate thanks to the GLM kit. In any case I know the PSI can deliver a great experience and after 2 years with them I'm still amazed with their stereo image and ability to go loud without ear fatigue.

Sorry I'm tired / off to bed I hope my message isn't confusing.

 

[james57]

Honestly I love my PSIs, it's just that I miss the 30-45hz range on some tracks. I have thought about A23s of course but at this amount of money I have carefully reviewed all possible plans. When reviewing measurments I found out that Genelec 83xx was outstanding plus GLM technology allows to correct frequency response which is something you cannot do easily with PSI. That said, I have used a DEQ2496 to correct the bass and the result was great. But... well this is about paying 8k+ EUR and I think Genelec offers something stellar on measurements with a DSP. It's also a bit "cheaper" too.

As for adding a PSI sub to the A17, I am tired of adding subs to 2 way speakers, working with their placement and phase correction. A 3 way speaker that can go down to 30hz for music is fine, I'm not asking for more as I can hardly hear below 30hz. If I want to add a sub one day I'll have some serious support from the GLM software which PSI doesn't have.

Finally, I'm not planning to get rid of my PSI. I still have to hear both brands in my room to truly compare but I expect both brands to be kind of complementary... while I confess expecting the Genelecs to be more accurate thanks to the GLM kit. In any case I know the PSI can deliver a great experience and after 2 years with them I'm still amazed with their stereo image and ability to go loud without ear fatigue.

Sorry I'm tired / off to bed I hope my message isn't confusing.

Thanks for sharing your experience and thought process.

 

[Nehi]

Honestly I love my PSIs, it's just that I miss the 30-45hz range on some tracks. I have thought about A23s of course but at this amount of money I have carefully reviewed all possible plans. When reviewing measurments I found out that Genelec 83xx was outstanding plus GLM technology allows to correct frequency response which is something you cannot do easily with PSI. That said, I have used a DEQ2496 to correct the bass and the result was great. But... well this is about paying 8k+ EUR and I think Genelec offers something stellar on measurements with a DSP. It's also a bit "cheaper" too.

As for adding a PSI sub to the A17, I am tired of adding subs to 2 way speakers, working with their placement and phase correction. A 3 way speaker that can go down to 30hz for music is fine, I'm not asking for more as I can hardly hear below 30hz. If I want to add a sub one day I'll have some serious support from the GLM software which PSI doesn't have.

Finally, I'm not planning to get rid of my PSI. I still have to hear both brands in my room to truly compare but I expect both brands to be kind of complementary... while I confess expecting the Genelecs to be more accurate thanks to the GLM kit. In any case I know the PSI can deliver a great experience and after 2 years with them I'm still amazed with their stereo image and ability to go loud without ear fatigue.

Sorry I'm tired / off to bed I hope my message isn't confusing.

I have a feeling that you would love those 8351s. Let us know how it goes. I have a LCR + sub system. 8340s, 8330 and 7360. I cannot complain about the performance. However I am tempted to go to the 'Ones'

 

[Spocko]

Honestly I love my PSIs, it's just that I miss the 30-45hz range on some tracks.

Just understand that the drop-off below 40hz is real and you'll still be missing stuff down there. The 8351B is not designed to reproduce that much bass energy if you listen to content that needs oomph below 40Hz - it's simply not possible in this size monitor. Below is the 8351B frequency response chart

The Ones are renown for their well controlled directivity and GLM room correction but you would need to add something like the W371A SAM or a dedicated subwoofer to retrieve the missing range accurately. FYI this is why I got the 7370a sub to match my 8350

 

[Pearljam5000]

Just understand that the drop-off below 40hz is real and you'll still be missing stuff down there. The 8351B is not designed to reproduce that much bass energy if you listen to content that needs oomph below 40Hz - it's simply not possible in this size monitor. Below is the 8351B frequency response chart

The Ones are renown for their well controlled directivity and GLM room correction but you would need to add something like the W371A SAM or a dedicated subwoofer to retrieve the missing range accurately. FYI this is why I got the 7370a sub to match my 8350

View attachment 248003

Won't the 8361 solve all the problems without the needs of a sub?

 

[Hmast]

Actually I was planning to get the 8361 but this topic is more active so this is where I went to ask about the preamp (and my real questioning was about PSI A25 vs 8361).

The point with W371A SAM is that it is so above my budget. A pair of 8361 is already a huge purchase for me. Adding one 7370 sub might be of interest later but actually thanks to the room gain I expect 8361 to be able to go down to 30hz without trouble. With no room gain it appears this speaker can deliver until 35hz without drop-off. I know my room has a mode at 28hz and I'll certainly need the GLM kit to reduce the output at 30hz because of this.

 

[RobL]

Actually I was planning to get the 8361 but this topic is more active so this is where I went to ask about the preamp (and my real questioning was about PSI A25 vs 8361).

The point with W371A SAM is that it is so above my budget. A pair of 8361 is already a huge purchase for me. Adding one 7370 sub might be of interest later but actually thanks to the room gain I expect 8361 to be able to go down to 30hz without trouble. With no room gain it appears this speaker can deliver until 35hz without drop-off. I know my room has a mode at 28hz and I'll certainly need the GLM kit to reduce the output at 30hz because of this.

Mine are close to the back wall but I get -3dB @ 26hz with my 61’s.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Actually I was planning to get the 8361 but this topic is more active so this is where I went to ask about the preamp (and my real questioning was about PSI A25 vs 8361).

The point with W371A SAM is that it is so above my budget. A pair of 8361 is already a huge purchase for me. Adding one 7370 sub might be of interest later but actually thanks to the room gain I expect 8361 to be able to go down to 30hz without trouble. With no room gain it appears this speaker can deliver until 35hz without drop-off. I know my room has a mode at 28hz and I'll certainly need the GLM kit to reduce the output at 30hz because of this.

I would go for 8361
Cheaper then A25, looks better (to me) coaxial, class D amps, GLM
Feels like a more complete package.
Never heard the PSIs so can't comment on it.
Both should be amazing in any case

 

[KaLam1ty]

FWIW, Genelec measurements are anechoic response, too.
My 8361A's also hit ~23Hz @ -6dB from room gain.

So in my experience, low end-extension isn't really a problem (especially for music); more so, it is various room influences that might cause some dips. Subs could definitely help flatten room issues, if there are any though.

 

[hege]

What next, someone hitting 20hz @ -15dB?

While it's better than nothing, you need actual positive dB figures down there to really hear (feel) the effects. Along with decend SPL. With preferably downwards sloping house curve to not break your ears.

Not saying that best models with "flattish 30hz in-room" won't satisfy most people, for music.

You have to remember that 8361A etc have very steep ~30hz highpass filter (48dB/oct) for protection and SPL capability. It reduces the room gain benefits below that much more than a normally rolling off speaker. Not that you'd want to abuse below reflex tuning anyway.

 

[eret9616]

Just installed these today and boy, they are amazing. I'm grinning like the time when I first heard good headphones, just now it's about soundstage rather than details. I mean incredible detail is still there, I'm just used to it, having listened to good headphones for years. But the soundstage! No headphone can dream of creating such realistic image.

View attachment 220514

Set them up in my home office. GLM calibration was quick and eliminated boominess of bass, although I still hear a bunch of reflections. Having read the GRADE report (generated in mere minutes, wow), it's time to treat the room.

I originally got 8331s and decided to upgrade right away. Sound is basically the same, the only difference is that 8351 extends lower into bass, so I don't need a sub…yet.

hi, can you hear the hiss from 8351 at night or when quiet? as I see the specification on Genelec website it says 8331a has 0db self-generate noise and 8351 has 5db self-generate noise, Is that good for a desktop PC speaker?

 

[Hmast]

While I'm at it... could the delay be an issue with the Genelec compared to PSI?

I see 2 scenarios where delay can be an issue:
1) films (delay between image and sound)
2) music production (delay when clicking stop/play very frequently to "search" or tune) + (delay when playing music with live feedback)

I know Bluetooth headsets often come with 180ms delay and it's quite impossible to watch a film because of this without compensating.
I know 50ms of input lag while playing a video game is a pain.

What about your experience with the Genelecs ? I think I read it was around 10ms (not sure where I read that, I've read so much in the past weeks).

 

[Trell]

While I'm at it... could the delay be an issue with the Genelec compared to PSI?

I see 2 scenarios where delay can be an issue:
1) films (delay between image and sound)
2) music production (delay when clicking stop/play very frequently to "search" or tune) + (delay when playing music with live feedback)

I know Bluetooth headsets often come with 180ms delay and it's quite impossible to watch a film because of this without compensating.
I know 50ms of input lag while playing a video game is a pain.

What about your experience with the Genelecs ? I think I read it was around 10ms (not sure where I read that, I've read so much in the past weeks).

>>>In SAM monitors the latency for a digital AES/EBU input, the delay is 3.75 – 4.5 ms, depending on the sample rate (shorter delay for higher sample rate). The delay in the analogue input is fixed to about 4 ms<<<

https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013403799-What-is-the-delay-latency-through-SAM-monitors-

 

[Olius]

While I'm at it... could the delay be an issue with the Genelec compared to PSI?

I see 2 scenarios where delay can be an issue:
1) films (delay between image and sound)
2) music production (delay when clicking stop/play very frequently to "search" or tune) + (delay when playing music with live feedback)

I know Bluetooth headsets often come with 180ms delay and it's quite impossible to watch a film because of this without compensating.
I know 50ms of input lag while playing a video game is a pain.

What about your experience with the Genelecs ? I think I read it was around 10ms (not sure where I read that, I've read so much in the past weeks).

I went from a pair of analog Genelecs to a pair of 8351B. I do everything on them. I watch movies, I listen to music, I play fps games, I mix film sound, I occasionaly produce music. I can't say I've ever noticed the added delay in the digital Genelecs.

Since I got the 8351Bs I also purchased a pair of Genelec 8330s for my digital piano. Even during piano playing the delay is low enough to not be noticeable.

 

[Pe8er]

hi, can you hear the hiss from 8351 at night or when quiet? as I see the specification on Genelec website it says 8331a has 0db self-generate noise and 8351 has 5db self-generate noise, Is that good for a desktop PC speaker?

I can't hear any hiss.

 

[Axo1989]

FWIW, Genelec measurements are anechoic response, too.
My 8361A's also hit ~23Hz @ -6dB from room gain.

So in my experience, low end-extension isn't really a problem (especially for music); more so, it is various room influences that might cause some dips. Subs could definitely help flatten room issues, if there are any though.

That's going to depend on your music preferences.

Take into account that our hearing sensitivity drops off significantly as frequency goes down, you may want more like +6 dB at 20 Hz (compared to midrange). I know my speakers are about 6 dB down at 20 Hz (better than anechoic/free-field thanks to the room) but while that's pretty good on paper—and to listen to—it isn't quite enough for music with intentional sub-bass content (in my experience). It's a 12 dB deficit. And I like smooth bass extension, not boom.

But if you don't listen to certain electronic music styles (or pipe organs, etc) you won't have the same requirements/preferences. I'm also ignoring home theatre, where you would generally want sub-bass (as @hege describes above).