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Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)

Ecksbocks

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I have a natural dip in the room around 70 Hz, so I figured that I might be able to minimize it by setting the x-over there and playing with phase to try and minimize it. Turns out the best result I've had so far is using 60 Hz and pointing the sub toward the front wall (the grill is nearly touching it). Pretty flat, punchy base from 100 Hz down to 20 Hz, +-2 Hz. Lots of playing with position and x-over frequencies - using the SVS app, GLM and REW made it fairly easy and quick to make the adjustments. Also putting furniture sliders under the sub (my basement has carpet) made moving it around MUCH easier. Pretty happy with what I have now, but there's always room for improvement... ;)
Good to hear that you made it!

Feel little stupid paying what I did for my genelec subwoofers.
 

Trell

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Good to hear that you made it!

Feel little stupid paying what I did for my genelec subwoofers.
Why should you feel stupid about that?

I’ve a Genelec SAM subwoofer for my desktop and 2.1 setup for the integration, room EQ, ease of setup where I don’t need any extra boxes connected to me RME ADI-2 DAC nor running EQ software on my PC.

I actually had one older SVS subwoofer that I sold when getting the Genelecs.
 

Ecksbocks

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Why should you feel stupid about that?

I’ve a Genelec SAM subwoofer for my desktop and 2.1 setup for the integration, room EQ, ease of setup where I don’t need any extra boxes connected to me RME ADI-2 DAC nor running EQ software on my PC.

I actually had one older SVS subwoofer that I sold when getting the Genelecs.
You absolutely right and I don't regret it, but it's a lot of money. The best part with SAM subwoofers is the integration, I'd say better than perfect.

Thanks for the remindier!
 

bricksie

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Good to hear that you made it!

Feel little stupid paying what I did for my genelec subwoofers.
Yeah - no reason to feel stupid. I would get the Genelec subs if I had the money, but the SVS is less than half the price of something comparable, and has enough control of crossover, phase, etc. that you can get good integration if you spend enough time and energy (and it's kind of fun too ;)). Genelecs are plug'n play - where's the fun in that? :p
 

Hmast

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Hi, I'm about to order after a few quotations.

I think it won't change my mind but there is still a little "stain": I can see the waterfall isn't perfect. You'll tell me there must be no perfect waterfall on this day, but the 2,5khz resonance may affect me. Yet, I see no one here talking about it.

How can this 2,5khz resonance be nothing you won't even bother talking about? Is it nearly impossible a trained ear can hear it?
 

Hmast

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Yeah, Warren has finally gave up his beloved NS10s and Gene 10xs. And learning to use a subwoofer and room correction! It's funny where he says "I need to remix this now" while listening to his own mix on it.

I think Warren came around on room correction when he was talking to a Genelec GLM engineer at the Ones kickoff. She told him that every room needs correction, and he said "Nah, I know my room", and she just told him bluntly that he was wrong. Twice.
Well, the point with Warren is he seems very happy with the Genelecs in this video, yet in his videos a couple of months later, the Gens have disappeared. So I guess he's done this video only to be paid by Genelec and advertise The Ones. It doesn't mean the Gens are not good, it just means to me his voice doesn't mean much in this video.
 

Hmast

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Someone had posted photos of the inside and the amp, I can't find those photos anymore. It doesn't seem to be in this thread, maybe the 8361A one, or maybe it was on gearspace. Has anyone seen this pictures?
 

lappy

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Someone had posted photos of the inside and the amp, I can't find those photos anymore. It doesn't seem to be in this thread, maybe the 8361A one, or maybe it was on gearspace. Has anyone seen this pictures?
 

Hmast

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I've been obsessive with these speakers for a few days now, trying to get their best in my small room.

They've replaced a pair of PSI A17 which were already setting the bar quite high. The project was to get bass extension with a sub to go full range. But sub integration require (at least to me) the right tools and Genelec provides such tools thanks to the GLM kit. Reading reviews of the Ones, I was also curious to see if medium/treble, details and stereo image would be improved.

At this time I have "simply" put the 8351B at the exact same place than the PSIs, and I calibrated them with GLM (both for sub integration and EQ+phase setup). On top of that I EQed the system just like I did with the PSI (using a DEQ2496 which surprisingly was giving me great results).

I wasn't planning to use the DEQ2496 before I found that I wasn't pleased with GLM v4. It was better calibrated than not so GLM is still fine, but I still had some troubles with the 125hz frequency which was still too strong (that's my strongest mode). So I tried the DEQ on top of GLM's settings and the result was as good as with my PSI A17s.

From here, treble/medium are... equal. I have spent hours hours and hours listening to tracks I have been listening every week in my life for now decades. I know nearly every frequency of every note in these tracks so I know when one is triggering a mode in my room I know the exact frequency...

Anyway.

As I said, it's surprising to see PSI and The Ones as equal bass extension aside. But, I am not here to say PSI is outstanding, I don't plan to get my PSIs back on the desk: my point is I feel like I don't get the best out of my Gens. There's something I really have to improve: my desk. Getting a bigger room would improve a lot of parameters too, especially in the bass region, but I can't change the room, so let's change the desk first :D

I was already getting better résultats from the PSIs when putting "foam" (kind of butt pillows I use for the dining room) on the desk right in front/below the speakers. It breaks LOTS of early reflections, especially in the 1-2khz range. Of course the best way to get rid of those reflections would be to avoid putting the speakers on the desk.

On a small note it's weird to hear the PSIs with a worse vertical dispersion have less troubles with those reflections... with the Gens I really noticed the sound is very HARSH without the foam on the desk, way more than the PSIs. I can't explain this as a better dispersion is supposed to help/give better results... anyway.

I have 2 possibilities from here:

1) put the speakers on desk pods but those should be quite tall to have a sufficient effect with reflections and the sound will inevitably come from "above" as the speakers will be higher than my head.

2) change the desk and use a narrower one so the sound won't bounce on the desk and the speakers will be set on stands.

FYI, I'm in a 10m² room at the best spot and rockwool is all around to help with frequencies down to 200-250hz. GLM is doing a great work with bass EQing and subwoofer integration.

I guess option 2 will give the best results but I like having lots of space when working... or maybe would you know great narrow desks to buy available in the European Union?
Option 1 will be easier for me to setup, and easier on the budget, so if you know great tall desk stands for 8351B I'm all ears :)
 

RobL

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Have you run a GRADE report?
 

Hmast

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Have you run a GRADE report?
Screenshot 2023-01-24 234228.jpg

N.B. note the red score must now be amber as DEQ2496 helped a lot correcting fq response on top of GLM.
 

Hmast

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Maybe that "harsh" sound when the foam is missing is due to GLM's correction for desk reflections... that could explain why the PSIs aren't as harsh.
Note that I ran GLM's calibration without the foams as I don't use the foams on the desk most of the time.
Anyway, those desk reflections are fixable without GLM so I'm still considering this improvement path.

edit : here is the full report: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AkfLgq4Wj1oRlsJJHsTeTALNUC5DsA?e=swBTfX
 
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RobL

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Maybe that "harsh" sound when the foam is missing is due to GLM's correction for desk reflections... that could explain why the PSIs aren't as harsh.
Note that I ran GLM's calibration without the foams as I don't use the foams on the desk most of the time.
Anyway, those desk reflections are fixable without GLM so I'm still considering this improvement path.

edit : here is the full report: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AkfLgq4Wj1oRlsJJHsTeTALNUC5DsA?e=swBTfX
Yeah, you need to deal with the reflection problem. You have a lot of comb filtering going on there. Can you post a pic of your setup?
 

Hmast

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Yeah, you need to deal with the reflection problem. You have a lot of comb filtering going on there. Can you post a pic of your setup?
Here it is:


As you can see the desk is quite large and comb filter will occur.
Hence my 2 options: setting the speakers high on the wall or desk stands + getting a narrow desk (but I'll miss the working space).
 
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807Recordings

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Here it is:


As you can see the desk is quite large and comb filter will occur.
Hence my 2 options: setting the speakers high on the wall or desk stands + getting a narrow desk (but I'll miss the working space).
It sure wouldn't hurt to raise both the loudspeakers and monitor into a better ergo position.
I have similar setup but with JBL and both are raised a bit more 16cm for monitor 27" and 22cm with the speakers slightly tilted. Also I have side panels as my room is about 1.6 meters wide.
 

Hmast

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Actually, the monitor/desk/chair levels are fine. My working position is fine this way.

However the Gens would benefit from a higher position as the tweeter is below my ears level. I have oriented the tweeters in my ears direction, the speakers are slightly tilt backward.

One thing that makes the PSI nicer on the comb filtering may be the fact their tweeter is 10cm higher compared to the Gens. It wasn't canceling any comb filtering but it wasn't that bad. I'll try to find a way to set the speakers 10cm higher but it won't stop me from going to a better solution.
 

Sokel

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Is your desk/setup placed in a corner?
 

Hmast

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Your signature answers quite well your question :D

(no)

This is what it looks like:

1674653645217.png


Entrance is on the left wall, a window is on the right wall. So there's not a lot of different possible locations.
 

Kervel

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Actually, the monitor/desk/chair levels are fine. My working position is fine this way.

However the Gens would benefit from a higher position as the tweeter is below my ears level. I have oriented the tweeters in my ears direction, the speakers are slightly tilt backward.

One thing that makes the PSI nicer on the comb filtering may be the fact their tweeter is 10cm higher compared to the Gens. It wasn't canceling any comb filtering but it wasn't that bad. I'll try to find a way to set the speakers 10cm higher but it won't stop me from going to a better solution.
I took a quick look at your grade report. The peaks and dips at 1khz and 2khz suggest desk reflections. Can you try elevating the speaker 10-15cm (just put it on a box or pile of books), and remeasure to see whether things improve? The sub has a huge dip at 60hz. The wavelength is 5.7m, and the quarter of this is 1.4m. Is your sub located 1.4m from the back wall? If so, put it closer to it. If not, then some other reflection creates the dip.
 
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