Genelec 8330A x 2+7350A: worth upgrading to 8351B x 2 given the placement on desk?

[ddonetskov]

Hello.

I am seeking for opinions on deciding between two choices:

1. Genelec 8330A x 2+7350A
2. Genelec 8351B x 2

In both the cases, the monitors will be placed on my desk (attaching a screenshot of it) with ~70см from their tweeters to my ears (that's the listening distance). I typically listen at 65-80 dBSP.

Actually, the case 1 have been my current setup for several days and I am so pleased with it that I am thinking of returning the whole set (while I still can) and getting 8351B instead as, probably, the best near-field monitors from Genelec and the 'end-game' monitors for me. GLM is used for the room correction, the room is not treated (nor that I am going to do that, my wife wouldn't understand that )) ).

I use the speakers for causal listening of high quality music of various genres. I seem to be that person who they call an audiophile. ))

My rationale for the 2nd option are
- no need to a bulky subwoofer, I guess I can still enjoy my favorite music without 22-32Гц,
- better vertical directivity (as per the Genelec specification), however, I do not move much height-wise when listening to music,
- 8351B seems to work better for that listening distance,
- subjectively, more clarify, better dynamics and coherency of what I will perceive with my ears.

My current worries are

1. Will 8351B be good at that listening distance in the long term?
2. Is it convenient to keep 8351B on a desk providing there is a place on it for them? Just looking for someone sharing their personal experience on it. I am asking because in most of cases, people put on stands.
3. In general, is the upgrade worth it given the cost? The cost (almost $5k) is a concern but I can survive it if I know 8351B will be noticeably superior to my current setup as I am going to live with the current setup or the new one for at least several next years. Hopefully, someone have done relevant comparisons/tests and can share their experience.

Thank you in advance!

 

[bodhi]

I went from your setup to 8350s. I have bit wider desk but same depth.

For music the bigger monitors are clearly superior choice (for me). You will notice lack of subwoofer in some tracks and of course with movies/games. Is it a big deal, only you can tell.

Is it worth 5k more... It's a stretch. If you have the money and you value the idea that you get endgame speakers and can basically stop pondering about upgrades, it might.

 

[subframe]

8351Bs are physically quite large. I don’t think I’d want them on a desk in front of me, but that’s up to your preference.

Genelec publishes minimum listening distances for all their monitors, I would start there.

 

[ddonetskov]

I went from your setup to 8350s. I have bit wider desk but same depth.

For music the bigger monitors are clearly superior choice (for me).

I am excited to realize I am not the only one who have considered or are considering this upgrade path! Could you please share a bit more of your experience on it?

Specifically,

1. Are you comfortable with keeping the pair of 8351B on your desk? Do you feel they "belong" to the place? Would you mind posting a photo of your desk with them?
2. As to the "clearly superior choice" for music, I am exactly after that and would rather willing to pay the price if I can expect noticeable difference (I suspect I am sensitive to records revealing their through good speakers). Could you please describe the difference of listening experience between these two cases (from the first post) I am considering? Or, probably, examples of some tracks (even their names would do) that can clearly reveal the difference.

Thanks a lot!

P.S. Found a photo of 8351B on the desk (here).

 

[ddonetskov]

Genelec publishes minimum listening distances for all their monitors, I would start there.

I guess I am safe here in both the cases. Looking at explanations from Genelec on choosing correct monitors (https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors), it looks like 8351B allows for even closer listening distance (to get a properly summed up signal): starting from something like 0.5m vs. ~0.7m for 8330A (providing I am interpreting their table in the Sound Pressure Levels correctly).

 

[Puddingbuks]

Get the 8351b.

It’s a shame that genelec subs are so expensive. I mean a 7350 with an 8 inch woofer? The 12 inch is 3.000 euros, come on man!

You’ll still need a sub.

 

[bodhi]

It’s a shame that genelec subs are so expensive. I mean a 7350 with an 8 inch woofer? The 12 inch is 3.000 euros, come on man!

They are tools, good tools, as are the speakers. They can charge extra because the buyers feel the reliability, quality and especially ease of use is worth it -> the make money with them tools.

For casual listeners the value is more questionable, also with the speakers.

 

[bodhi]

I am excited to realize I am not the only one who have considered or are considering this upgrade path! Could you please share a bit more of your experience on it?

Specifically,

1. Are you comfortable with keeping the pair of 8351B on your desk? Do you feel they "belong" to the place? Would you mind posting a photo of your desk with them?
2. As to the "clearly superior choice" for music, I am exactly after that and would rather willing to pay the price if I can expect noticeable difference (I suspect I am sensitive to records revealing their through good speakers). Could you please describe the difference of listening experience between these two cases (from the first post) I am considering? Or, probably, examples of some tracks (even their names would do) that can clearly reveal the difference.

Thanks a lot!

P.S. Found a photo of 8351B on the desk (here).

I have 8350s but they are the same size. Measurements are close, but some think 8351 is clearly better, some don't. Haven't tested myself.

As for the difference in sound quality... Only subjective things but what I hear is more convincing stereo image, wider and taller. I feel more enveloped in the sound. I also like the effortlessness the 8350s bring compared to the 8330s, this might be placebo. Bass feels more integrated and tighter than with the sub and 8330s.

The thing is I gave the 8330s away in upgrade deal and didn't compare them side by side. I'm kind of suspicious about how much of the decisive improvements are from my imagination but having had the 8330s for couple of years I know how they sound and I'm still often amazed by the sound of bigger monitors, so no buyers remorse.

The 8351s are so much more expensive that I strongly recommend you to test them side by side just to be sure.

 

[Kervel]

The 8351B are awesome, but a lot of money goes into the capability to listen midfield (say 3 meters). If you are sure you are not gonna use that, I would save some money to get the 8331 for the same coaxials, and use the difference to get a single 7350. That would truly be full range, and sizewise more convenient for a desk

 

[oversky]

Case 1 has freedom of better bass location.
You can try to put 7350A on the desk at where 8351B will be.
Do some measurements.
If you see some dips below 160 Hz,
8351B may not perform as you have expected.

 

[ddonetskov]

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts. Much appreciated!

I am starting to think of getting 8331A or 8341A instead of their big 'brother' 8351B for my setup. That'd be much more convenient for my desk. I have read probably ten of feedbacks from people who somewhat compared 8331A/8341A to 8531B and it seems that 8331A/8341A along with a decent sub shouldn't be as less musical as 8351B in a range of moderate volume (70-85 db SPL @1m) .

I'd probably go with 8341A+7350A as it seems to have a better future-proof value (volume capacity, resale value etc).

Attaching, my room measurement (2 x 8330A + 7350A). I'd appreciate your comments on it esp. whether that'd be easier for 8331A/8341A + 7350A to fill in air around my head with waves more properly than 8330A+7350A currently manage.

 

[ddonetskov]

I have brought a pair of 8341A to my home today so they are replacing my current 8330A on my desk. I have been listening to them for an hour (with the GLM correction, 7350A singing along with them, and no any stands... yet). My first impressions comparing to 8330A are

1. Less "bright", I apologize for such a subjective term. They don't seem to be so pressing on my ears and my mind as a music is being pouring in through them to my room. Not sure everyone would like it, some people may prefer more "lively", engaging sound. One of consequences is that I tend to increase volume a bit on 8341A comparing to what I was accustomed for 8330A.
2. Definitely, they are more detailed. I can hear more gentle sounds, more subtle changes. An audiophile in me is happy.
3. The GLM correction makes a big difference, it removes boominess, harshness from the low end, and make the middle range 'thinner', more transparent. I wouldn't probably like 8341A at all without this correction. That's probably just my untreated room, but right now I'd say GLM is a must with these.
4. The comfortable area (width/height) of music stage is larger. It's something like trying to keep my head within a 21'' monitor frame while listening to 8330A whereas 8341A allows for moving head inside probably 32'' monitor frame.
5. The bass is more pleasing. It's just there and it sounds right to me.
6. The weight of my wallet is considerable less heavier now. Though that's probably rather a good thing those money went to engineers of Genelec. )) Well done, Genelec!

The most important advantage for is the point 2. The point 1 is likely to helpful too in case of long listening sessions. I believe I will start appreciating the point 4 more and more in the future.

Subjectively, the quality jump (8330A -> 8341A) is something like +20-30% so it is not proportional to the cost difference but that's expected as that seems to the rule in the world of really good musical equipment. I'd say those 20-30% is rather a big step here and I am quite happy to pay for it, mostly because of the point 2.

With everything having said above, I'd say 8330A are still very good monitors. I might have been very happy with them for a long time hadn't Genelec have invented The Ones _and_ hadn't I have found this forum. ))

Thanks to everyone who have helped me above with their considerations.

 

[spamilton]

Thanks to everyone who have helped me above with their considerations.

Thanks for the comparisons. I'm in a very similar situation. I have the 8030C, and I'm getting the itch for The Ones. Just difficult to decide on the size. I have an 8 ft desk, so plenty of room there, but my room is only like 10x15. My in-room bass response is very good considering the size of the 8030, but it would be nice to have some more bass presence for certain tracks. I've probably read every Genelec post on every forum at this point. I feel like I'm going to have to go for the 41 at minimum to please my brain, though I don't want to regret not getting the 51 . It's reassuring that many people say they can't hear a difference between the 41 and 51 in the mids and HF even though they have different drivers. The 41 is also nearly 6 years old and may get a refresh within a year or so, and not that new is always better, but with Genelec it usually is even if only by a small margin. Anyway, just airing my thoughts.

 

[dj94030]

Thanks for the comparisons. I'm in a very similar situation. I have the 8030C, and I'm getting the itch for The Ones. Just difficult to decide on the size. I have an 8 ft desk, so plenty of room there, but my room is only like 10x15. My in-room bass response is very good considering the size of the 8030, but it would be nice to have some more bass presence for certain tracks. I've probably read every Genelec post on every forum at this point. I feel like I'm going to have to go for the 41 at minimum to please my brain, though I don't want to regret not getting the 51 . It's reassuring that many people say they can't hear a difference between the 41 and 51 in the mids and HF even though they have different drivers. The 41 is also nearly 6 years old, and not that new is always better, but with Genelec it usually is even if only by a small margin. Anyway, just airing my thoughts.

My conclusion is that not getting 51s will be regrettable.
Their support guy told me that 41 will be good enough, especially with sub. And when i asked about releasing 41b he said "41s (introduced 2017) already had a newer version right from the start. Therefore we won't update these in the near future. Just go for it. I'm enjoying my 41s every day at my home studio ... ;-)"

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I would be more inclined to get the 8351's if I were using them in a home listening room setup than as desk monitors. The 8330a's seem very servicable for your intended purpose, but, if you must, no question the 8351's would be unparalled. Very expensive, and will undoubtedly dominate your desk, however.

 

[spamilton]

41s (introduced 2017) already had a newer version right from the start.

What did he mean by this?

 

[dj94030]

What did he mean by this?

He meant that 51(a) were released before 41. And so 41 and 51b are at the same "upgrade level".

 

[spamilton]

He meant that 51(a) were released before 41. And so 41 and 51b are at the same "upgrade level".

Ah. Well, the 51b released 5 years after the 51a . It's possible they could do a 3rd gen driver refresh (probably scaled down) on the 31 and 41.

I'm sure this has been posted here before, but here is some good info on the driver updates:

The coaxial driver in the 8351A was introduced already in 2009 when the 8260A was published. That means it had its 10 year anniversary this year. It is the 1st generation coaxial driver we have made. Since that, we have learned a lot when it comes to designing a high performance coaxial driver, and in 2017 we launched the 2nd generation coaxial in the 8331A and 8341A monitors. Now, in the 8351B and 8361A we are launching the 3rd generation coaxial driver which is a completely new design compared to the original coaxial. Please notice this is not the same as the physically smaller coaxial driver used in 8331A and 8341A monitors.

-neodymium magnet vs. ferrite which reduces the mass of the driver

-1 inch tweeter vs. 3/4" which leads to higher SPL capability but also larger bandwidth (up to 43 kHz)

-larger voice coil to provide more power handling as well as help to drive the cone from an optimum position

-lower woofer to mid crossover (470 Hz to 320 Hz)

-higher mid to tweeter crossover (2600 Hz to 2800 Hz)

-better overall performance, lower distortion

-better manufacturability and tighter tolerances



8351A and 8260A monitors will be discontinued which means the 1st generation coaxial will not be produced any more (of course spare parts are still available).

 

[ddonetskov]

My conclusion is that not getting 51s will be regrettable.

Did you mean 41s or 51s? That's just your reference to a Genelec's guy in the next paragraph implies not getting 51s will not be regrettable (as much as comparing to getting 41s). )

Their support guy told me that 41 will be good enough, especially with sub. And when i asked about releasing 41b he said "41s (introduced 2017) already had a newer version right from the start. Therefore we won't update these in the near future. Just go for it. I'm enjoying my 41s every day at my home studio ... ;-)"

 

[ddonetskov]

Thanks for the comparisons. I'm in a very similar situation. I have the 8030C, and I'm getting the itch for The Ones. Just difficult to decide on the size. I have an 8 ft desk, so plenty of room there, but my room is only like 10x15. My in-room bass response is very good considering the size of the 8030, but it would be nice to have some more bass presence for certain tracks. I've probably read every Genelec post on every forum at this point. I feel like I'm going to have to go for the 41 at minimum to please my brain, though I don't want to regret not getting the 51 . It's reassuring that many people say they can't hear a difference between the 41 and 51 in the mids and HF even though they have different drivers. The 41 is also nearly 6 years old and may get a refresh within a year or so, and not that new is always better, but with Genelec it usually is even if only by a small margin. Anyway, just airing my thoughts.

I'd go for the 8341 at minimum. My investigation says it's more popular than 8331, there seems to be more sales of the former, and, probably, you can sell it considerably easier afterwards if you decide to got after 51s. Better bass and SPL won't harm either.

I've probably read every Genelec post on every forum at this point.

Oh, I know this feeling, being there. ))

I am attaching a photo of 8341A on my desk (1.7m or 5.6ft long) to get you feeling of how it looks like. And that monitor is a large 40'' one (LG 40WP95C-W). P.S. Some cables are not in their proper place yet, going to do some cable management soon.