Gearslutz on Power Cables

[pozz]

Prime DeltaWave material here:

• https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mas...-difference-power-cables-19.html#post14448014
• https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gea...196-vovox-initio-power-vs-ordinary-cable.html

Two posts of comparison files recorded through ADCs with different power cables connected. The first, involving the latest Shunyata cables and a Mytek Brooklyn ADC, is more interesting and detailed than the second.

I'm on the road the next while so I hope someone will run the null tests in the meantime.

 

[Veri]

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mas...-difference-power-cables-19.html#post14448014

Stock cables it is for me. No way I'm spending anything on an "audiophile" cable. I'm not seeing anything in that thread that convinces me otherwise.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I only did the first link. I've looked at the other one before and it has problems.

I'll keep to myself which are really different so as not to mess up someone else's test.

The two power cord different recordings vs each other. RMS difference of -102.68 db and Correlated null of 101.99 db.

Vs the source file a difference level of 67.44 and 67.41 with correlated nulls of 69.26 and 70.8 db. Well within run to run variations in noise.

Going further and using the D,E, and F files the two that were different were Difference -99.36 and correlated null 98.46 db. The same cable run twice was Difference -104.23 db and correlated null 101.48 db. One might look at this and think well the expensive power cable was a little bit different somehow. I've done multiple runs changing nothing, and this difference is within run to run variations. If the fellow did multiple runs with the Shunyata and with the stock power cables and the Shunyata regularly is a few db better then there might be something to it. Mainly most Shunyata cables are a larger gauge cord.

 

[pozz]

The reason for the original thread was because a mastering engineer claimed that power cables affect his mixes: original vid, follow up. Opened a can of worms.

 

[pkane]

I only did the first link. I've looked at the other one before and it has problems.

I'll keep to myself which are really different so as not to mess up someone else's test.

The two power cord different recordings vs each other. RMS difference of -102.68 db and Correlated null of 101.99 db.

Vs the source file a difference level of 67.44 and 67.41 with correlated nulls of 69.26 and 70.8 db. Well within run to run variations in noise.

Going further and using the D,E, and F files the two that were different were Difference -99.36 and correlated null 98.46 db. The same cable run twice was Difference -104.23 db and correlated null 101.48 db. One might look at this and think well the expensive power cable was a little bit different somehow. I've done multiple runs changing nothing, and this difference is within run to run variations. If the fellow did multiple runs with the Shunyata and with the stock power cables and the Shunyata regularly is a few db better then there might be something to it. Mainly most Shunyata cables are a higher gauge cord.

Just a quick look at the post reveals that the original file was 16 bits. Assuming dither was added by the DAC, one would expect variations at or below -96dBFS between runs, simply because of random dither and nothing to do with the power cord.

 

[mansr]

I only did the first link. I've looked at the other one before and it has problems.

I'll keep to myself which are really different so as not to mess up someone else's test.

The two power cord different recordings vs each other. RMS difference of -102.68 db and Correlated null of 101.99 db.

Vs the source file a difference level of 67.44 and 67.41 with correlated nulls of 69.26 and 70.8 db. Well within run to run variations in noise.

Going further and using the D,E, and F files the two that were different were Difference -99.36 and correlated null 98.46 db. The same cable run twice was Difference -104.23 db and correlated null 101.48 db. One might look at this and think well the expensive power cable was a little bit different somehow. I've done multiple runs changing nothing, and this difference is within run to run variations. If the fellow did multiple runs with the Shunyata and with the stock power cables and the Shunyata regularly is a few db better then there might be something to it. Mainly most Shunyata cables are a higher gauge cord.

In tests like this, the items to be compared should be measured once each, then the sequence should be repeated at least two more times, possibly with the order shuffled. Otherwise it's possible that the results are being skewed by an unrelated trend such as equipment warm-up or a temporary disturbance. With more repeats, one also gets some idea of the natural run to run variations. It's tedious work but necessary in order to get meaningful results.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I've done such things looking for equipment warm up and clock warm up effects. THD, IMD, did go down over time, but it was like a db or db and a half stone cold vs 2 hrs. I did measurements every half hour. Not saying some gear doesn't change more, but even that is a small effect. I couldn't find any difference in relative clock speeds from turn on vs weeks later. Differences were in the 1/100th of a PPM level.

 

[mansr]

I've done such things looking for equipment warm up and clock warm up effects. THD, IMD, did go down over time, but it was like a db or db and a half stone cold vs 2 hrs. I did measurements every half hour. Not saying some gear doesn't change more, but even that is a small effect. I couldn't find any difference in relative clock speeds from turn on vs weeks later. Differences were in the 1/100th of a PPM pevel.

When you're looking for an effect that shouldn't exist, even small known variations must be accounted for.

 

[anmpr1]

The reason for the original thread was because a mastering engineer claimed that power cables affect his mixes: original vid, follow up. Opened a can of worms.

What I lose sleep over is not the power cable per se, but rather the power source. In my experience electricity from a coal fired plant tends to make the music dark and hazy sounding. With wind powered electricity you really get the 'air' between the notes. Electricity from nuke plants tends to light up the highs, I guess you could say it makes them glow. Some find that unnatural. I've found that water generated electricity offers that liquid mid-range reminiscent of a vintage ARC SP3 with the a-1 mod, but not the 'C' mod, which leans more toward a brighter, hotter solar electric sound. I'm still in the process of investigating biomass and steam electricity effects on DACs and amps. Will report back when I can make up something fine tune my aural judgements.

 

[Jinjuku]

I've pointed out many a time over the past 20 years what this poster at gear slutz posted:

"Question.

From a quick reading of the brochure,
Shunyata NR is a cable embedding filters.
In that respect is a sort of rudimental power conditioning device.

Can we still call It "cable"?"


Just like MIT or Transparent. If you have box in the middle with electronics in it it's no longer a cable. Might as well compare a cable into a wall outlet vs a fully balanced power conditioner with 100% pure sign wave generation. Furman comes to mind at the immediate moment.

 

[Thomas savage]

What I lose sleep over is not the power cable per se, but rather the power source. In my experience electricity from a coal fired plant tends to make the music dark and hazy sounding. With wind powered electricity you really get the 'air' between the notes. Electricity from nuke plants tends to light up the highs, I guess you could say it makes them glow. Some find that unnatural. I've found that water generated electricity offers that liquid mid-range reminiscent of a vintage ARC SP3 with the a-1 mod, but not the 'C' mod, which leans more toward a brighter, hotter solar electric sound. I'm still in the process of investigating biomass and steam electricity effects on DACs and amps. Will report back when I can make up something fine tune my aural judgements.

For nuclear power just toe your speakers out a little bit to compensate for the high frequency issues .

 

[Berwhale]

For nuclear power just toe your speakers out a little bit to compensate for the high frequency issues .

Proof, at last, that nuclear power leads to extra toes! I'll get my coat...

 

[Speedskater]

"Question.
From a quick reading of the brochure,
Shunyata NR is a cable embedding filters.
In that respect is a sort of rudimental power conditioning device.
Can we still call It "cable"?"
Just like MIT or Transparent. If you have box in the middle with electronics in it it's no longer a cable.

They are 'filters' with attached cables.

 

[snapsc]

anmpr1

I think you've possibly overlooked a good business opportunity...Solar Panels For Discriminating Audiophiles....when only the best electrons will do!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Purchased some nimh rechargeable batteries for a cordless phone this week. Enerloop brand that arrive pre charged for use. The package touts how these were charged using clean green solar power.

 

[Speedskater]

Solar Panels For Discriminating Audiophiles....when only the best electrons will do!

The popular residential solar panel installs are a great source of RFI interference.

 

[Arno Fennix]

Did somebody have a chance to measure a Shunyata NR cable (LCR etc)?