Fosi Audio P3 Preamplifier & Headphone Amplifier Discussion

[Jeromeof]

May I suggest that you (Fosi) make two different products? There is a reason why Schiit makes the Magni AND the Vali and sells them both.
1. Preamp with tubes.
2. Preamp with no tubes.
Then tube-lovers and tube-haters will each have reasons to your products.

I would agree - I see multiple 'religions' in audio, e.g. the subjectivists and the objectivists or the 'retro' analog lovers and the digital lovers.

The V3 (as the Aiyima A07 before it) sort of sits in that perfect space where it's cheap enough for everyone to buy and it both measures well and the subjectivists / YouTubes love it e.g. "The British Audiophile" gave the V3 a glowing review the other day - very unusual for him for something this 'cheap').

So because the V3 appeals to both 'camps / religions' what goes before it can be more complicated.

For the retro analog lovers (and mostly subjectivists) - I would could easily see a tube pre-amp maybe with a phono input as well as RCA and possible headphone Jack. This way they can have their 'tube sound' and possible a turntable and other devices further up the chain. Probably with Bluetooth and bass / treble tone controls. The 'concept' of this 'pre-amp' is to introduce that 'warm' tube sound into the mix.

For the digital lovers (mostly objectivists I would believe) - I would see a Fosi Device that is effectively a DAC, ideally with some more advanced EQ / PEQ than basic tone controls (see below). The 'concept' of this device i.e. 'pre-amp / dac' is to preserve a clean signal without any colouring. I would suggest a headphone output here also but no bluetooth as this side of the religion probably would only like lossless digital inputs and would ideally get that via whatever was connected to the DAC via USB/ Opt / Coax etc. A remote would be required to control the inputs and volume.

FYI: At the same time as receiving the V3 I got an alternative TPA3255 Amp the 'Wondom Bru5' - it is not as clean sounding 'out of the box' but because it has built in DSP it can be made to sound much better IMO - there is a thread about it here - it is not without its problems but when 'configured' it works very well:

wondom bru5 pc dsp configurable TPA 3255 "300w x 2" mini amplifier

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004895645420.html here is their web https://store.sure-electronics.com/ but screwed if i can find it it looks like this company is more geared towards arcade, gambling and professional setups here's a screen cap of their software which gives you a taste...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Combine this type of advance DSP / PEQ capability with a DAC and feed the result into a V3 and I think you would have a very appealing product.

 

[GGroch]

The V3 is so successful not because it is a revolutionary product, but because it provides a design approach that is very attractive to a subset of audiophiles who were not previously well served by inexpensive mini components. Just as important, this subset is heavily represented among social media influencers.

If I were designing a preamp going after this audience I would consider what unique value proposition could Fosi make that would attract this group. I would also consider what functions the V3 is lacking that they would find most compelling. I agree with previous posters that tubes are not underrepresented in inexpensive mini components. In addition, the V3 prioritizes lowering distortion through better components. Tubes purposely raise distortion, the 2 goals seem incongruous. If you include them, then include a way to bypass them.

A couple of suggestions: Check out the hard to find Nobsound NS-08 Pro. Like the V3 it features unique technologies at this price point. Internal linear toroidal power supply, 128 level relay volume adjustment, branded parts (Japanese Omron switches, UK-ARM microprocessor,High End Qualcomm Bluetooth chip. I am using this with the V3 now and they work fine together. It is passive, and they make an active preamp version (sold as the NS-08P not-pro and BRZHiFi VOL-03) that may be a better match to the V3's low gain. This does not seem to have been a successful product, but I think its mostly because its audience, ASR types & audiophile influencers, did not know about it or respect the brand.

Functions V3 owners most want may include multiple inputs (the NS-08 Pro has 4+ switchable Bluetooth), an easy to see display, and remote (check, check NS-08 Pro).

Needed, but not on the NS-08 Pro are a true 2nd Pre-Amp out for a sub, and tone controls or DSP that can be defeated. I think the active NS-08P/BRZHiFi VOL-03) has tone controls. A pre-amp like this would both give V3 owners the features some are missing, but also a good audiophile story that we ASR types and influencers appreciate.

 

[GGroch]

The Fosi P3 Kickstarter is live. Certainly economical at $65 kickstarter price, and looks nice.

Not much discussion of the internals yet. It seems similar to the Fosi P1 but with Bluetooth and a nicer case. When I look closely at the 1st photo in this thread it looks like there is a separate 3.5mm pre out, hopefully tied to the volume control. In the photos they look like GE tubes.

I wish they had added a 2nd input. The kickstarter indicates they are still working on finalizing the design.

It will be popular I am sure, but probably not so much here at ASR.

A matching Headphone amp is promised to follow.

 

[Jeromeof]

The Fosi P3 Kickstarter is live. Certainly economical at $65 kickstarter price, and looks nice.

Not much discussion of the internals yet. It seems similar to the Fosi P1 but with Bluetooth and a nicer case. I really wish they had added another input and a sub/preamp out at the least. It will be popular I am sure, but probably not so much here at ASR.

A matching Headphone amp is to follow.

Yes, I agree some more details would be good - but I decided to back it also as it does look nice

 

[hdw]

I would like a high scoring DAC with remote volume control for use with tv's. RCA outs for the V3 and a volume controlled preout for a powered sub.

 

[ronniebear]

The terminology and usage of the noun preamplifier seems to be a sticking point. For many decades, audio consumers have understood this to be a control center for one's audio system, a component which accepts multiple audio inputs and outputs, allows switching between those inputs and outputs, as well as providing customizable features such as tone controls, balance control, tape recorder output, headphone output etc. In the classic 20th-century definition, a preamplifier also includes a subsidiary phono stage (or "phono preamplifier").

I regret that the industry's terminology for this type of device has changed in recent times, hence some disappointment about this specific Fosi Audio product which may be a superb performer for its intended purpose (tonality enhancement using vacuum tube technology), but which omits the typical control functionality found in a preamplifier from the late 20th century. Many of us would really, really like a compact control-type preamplifier to complement the brilliant Fosi Audio power amplifiers: two or three RCA input jacks, possibly an RCA output jack for recording (maybe), a dedicated subwoofer output, tone and balance controls, a DAC and headphone jack.

 

[ronniebear]

Here's a review and discussion thread of a classic late-20th-century stereo preamplifier. There's no need to cram as much functionality into a future Fosi Audio control preamplifier, but please incorporate an excellent subsonic (infrasonic) filter into the phono stage RIAA equalization curve to avoid violent speaker thumping caused by infrasonic noise created by imperfect LP records and tonearm resonances. Apt Holman Preamplifier - Amir's review and discussion

 

[PiobGuy]

@Fosi Audio What price point are you expecting something like the P3 to fall in to? How would it compare to / compete with something like the Aiyma T9?

 

[TonyJZX]

yep

i would throw my hat in the ring for a pure analog rca or xlr preamp w/ remote and posibly a headphone socket

and put in 5 plus inpits

or just buy the douk bt preamp w/ choice of pga2310 njw194 or relay vol

 

[Fosi Audio]

What price point are you expecting something like the P3 to fall in to?

The price range could be 70-80 bucks. It's a pre-amplifier/headphone amp actually.

 

[Talisman]

After the successful launch of our previous mini stereo amplifier, V3, we received significant attention and recognition from members. Thank you all!

As a brand committed to designing and developing products based on user feedback and demands, Fosi Audio swiftly responded to customer suggestions and feedback. We promptly assembled our team of engineers to embark on the development of our next-generation vacuum tube preamplifier and also a headphone amplifier, the P3, which belongs to the same series of V3. We'll reveal the development process information about it and collect your suggestions!

First, we'd like to share the concept map of this new preamplifier.

View attachment 295751

This seems like a step back in the wrong direction. a substantially useless preamplifier, valves to attract mosquitoes and worsen performance, only one input and one output when everyone now goes from the dac to the amplifier.
what's the point of all this?

 

[Fosi Audio]

This seems like a step back in the wrong direction. a substantially useless preamplifier, valves to attract mosquitoes and worsen performance, only one input and one output when everyone now goes from the dac to the amplifier.
what's the point of all this?

P3's treble and bass tone control and tubes can help adjust the sound characteristics, which we admit may not be loved by all audiophiles but there're still people looking forward. Furthermore, the Bluetooth connectivity is a function we believe many users would like to have.

BTW, we'll make a DAC with a similar chassis to stack with the V3 indeed.

 

[Talisman]

P3's treble and bass tone control and tubes can help adjust the sound characteristics, which we admit may not be loved by all audiophiles but there're still people looking forward. Furthermore, the Bluetooth connectivity is a function we believe many users would like to have.

BTW, we'll make a DAC with a similar chassis to stack with the V3 indeed.

That's exactly what over 100 other products out there offer. Bluetooth connectivity is now built into most dacs and often with much better implementation and LDAC protocol which I guess you may not expect to use.
Also, really, what is it for? to cascade it with another integrated amp and add a dual gain stage? what does it mean? what can this tool do besides degrade the signal of a good dac?
It also doesn't offer multiple and diverse inputs, which would be the only sensible reason to own it.

 

[PiobGuy]

Since this is pretty certain to be a real product, I wonder if you could still add a adjustable line/sub out. This is the major thing missing from the v3.

 

[Joe Smith]

I also agree that a compact preamplifier (that could compete with the Schiit Saga S (solid state)) would be an excellent add to the Fosi lineup, including either electronic or physical tone controls. One of the main advantages of the V3 as I use it is the ability to control the quieter volume levels, but last night I was missing tone controls a bit - was listening to Brahms Symphonies while my wife and I played a game, and I really wanted a "loudness" type of boost to be available. A matching form factor preamp that had at least two RCA inputs plus good Bluetooth, with tone controls, and a remote...I would buy that. Shoot for perhaps $150, roughly half the price of the Saga? And then, yeah, a matching DAC ($100?) would be nice.

And if you have the volume control available via the preamp, then can also do mini-monoblock amps capable of 100 wpc at 8 ohm with no VC.

The wider Schiit components are well suited to the multiple inputs and the good volume control, but it does not have tone control, nor a slot for a phono preamp addition. These are changes that I think Schitt should do, but I guess they want you to buy your tone controls separately, and they don't care about BT.

No interest here in tubes...

 

[gafortiby]

I bought the V3 on kickstarter but I’m not interested in buying the P3 because it has tubes. I would have bought one if it was solid state.
Also I think Bluetooth belongs in a DAC rather than preamp. But I don’t really care since I wouldn’t have used Bluetooth anyway.

 

[PiobGuy]

@Fosi Audio I'm curious how this will be different from the the Aiyima T7 other than the addition of a headphone amp?

Edit: I should have asked how the sound will differ from the Fosi P1 but I would be interested in a comparison to the T7 too.

 

[TonyJZX]

AIYIMA T7

Description:Features:1. Tube bile preamplifier, the audio signal input terminal can be connected to the computer, mobile phone, CD, lossless music player and other audio sources.2. The output terminal can be connected to various digital amplifiers, active multimedia speakers and other audio...

www.aiyima.com

$60

$63 w/ psu!

granted its a 12v 1.5 amp

i'm going to guess they both measure like shit... but that's the idea behind tubes

 

[GGroch]

Fosi has just released some basic P3 Preamp Specifications:

Posted by Fosi Audio to Kickstarter
Jul 20, 2023

Input: RCA line-in, Bluetooth 5.1

Output: RCA line-out, pre-out

Bluetooth Chip: Qualcomm QCC3031, supports SBC, AAC, aptX, aptX HD, aptX LL codec

Headphone Impedance Support: 32Ω-300Ω

Frequency Response: 20Hz-20kHz

Control Knobs: volume knob, treble & bass tone control

Tubes: GE 5725 (real tube amplification)

Power Supply: 12V/1.5A

 

[GGroch]

Googling the GE 5725 tube, I came upon an interesting competitor that I just realized I already had in my far too large gadgets collection.

The FX-Audio Tube 02 Pro (links to review). An Amazon US coupon on the listing page prices it at $56 right now. I used it briefly as a headphone amp for my PC setup, but have never tried the pre-outs. I quite liked it. I'll grab it and try it out with my V3.

The FX-Audio lacks tone controls and Bluetooth, which many Fosi V3 owners will want. It does have 2 Line Inputs. Its gain control is a nice thought, but high gain provides very little boost over low gain.

ADDED: OUCH, I see Amir has tested the FX-Audio Tube 02 Pro. His skeptical Panther review here. Despite the 39dB S/N, he does not totally hate it using high impedance headphones; saying that it sounded OK and that tube enthusiasts want some distortion, that is what they are paying for.