Etymotic ER2 vs balanced armature

[Ambient384]

I think the extension difference in the older model is not significant. Distortion is better.

I don't know what their reasoning is. The BA they use is custom. Perhaps it will make sense once Etymotic describes the production process. Consistency and cost are important too.

I also think this is proof enough that there's nothing wrong with BA drivers per se, seeing these results.

There argument seems to claim 3rd order is more audible but the ER3/ER4 are 0.2 ~ 1.4% at 1KHz. Etymotic even admitted the limit is 2% for ER4XR/ER3XR midrange, Every ER4SR I had were 0.28 ~ 0.49% average just touch higher than a TOTL planar OE at 104db. 2nd order THD at 2 ~ 15% in my view is more noticeable by giving Dynamic drivers the false impression they're got a bass boost. I notice this with the ER2SE with 5db bass boost(110Hz low shelf) It sounds fatter & dirtier than a ER4SR with same boost.

 

[flaviowolff]

Would it be possible to EQ the ER2SE so it sounds exactly like the ER2XR? Is there any physical difference between their drivers that wouldn't allow them to sound the exact same?

 

[JanesJr1]

I searched whole internet for measurements and everything seems to point to the ER2 being superior to the ER3 and ER4. The frequency response between them are very small and it would be trivial easy to EQ ER2 to have frequency response as ER4. The distortion is far superior on the dynamic driver of ER2 and it seems to even have better extension past 17KHz.

So why pay more for inferior headphone? Like I said before, the small subjective differences of " resolution, smearing, clarity, speed, bla bla bla" should be easily erased with EQ where you set the Q factor and precise frequency of the bands. The supreme matching of drivers of ER4 seems not worth the price increase since the ER2 and 3 seem to be perfectly matched so only advantage seems to be bigger variety of ear tips in the box.

I dont believe in magic, I believe in distortion, frequency response and phase response. I found nothing that would explain what advantage balanced armature ER3 and 4 has over the ER2 and why would anybody pay so much more for it other than slight out of the box frequency curve differences. Am I missing something?

I like the dynamics of the ER2 better sometimes, but I have a totally different subjective response overall when comparing ER2 to ER4. The lack of detail, the smearing, the inferior separation (blah, blah, blah) of the ER2 means that I hardly ever listen to the ER2 even though I own it. I spent many, many hours doing A/B comparisons of ER2 and ER4, and the ER2's just don't cut it for me at all. The differences don't sound small at all .. they sound fundamental and essential. Every time I use the ER2's on a music selection that I've heard before, I'm constantly wondering where so much of the music went. The ER4's have flaws, and I find it hard to EQ their bass response, but, well, you know ... It depends on your listening values. Except at the very low end, the FR of ER2 and ER4 are very similar, but it's in the blah, blah, blah of resolution, imaging, and separation that the differences reside.

 

[JanesJr1]

I like the dynamics of the ER2 better sometimes, but I have a totally different subjective response overall when comparing ER2 to ER4. The lack of detail, the smearing, the inferior separation (blah, blah, blah) of the ER2 means that I hardly ever listen to the ER2 even though I own it. I spent many, many hours doing A/B comparisons of ER2 and ER4, and the ER2's just don't cut it for me at all. The differences don't sound small at all .. they sound fundamental and essential. Every time I use the ER2's on a music selection that I've heard before, I'm constantly wondering where so much of the music went. The ER4's have flaws, and I find it hard to EQ their bass response, but, well, you know ... It depends on your listening values. Except at the very low end, the FR of ER2 and ER4 are very similar, but it's in the blah, blah, blah of resolution, imaging, and separation that the differences reside.

PS I also like planar headphones better than the Ety's for the other reasons mentioned in posts above, and drag around planars in my backpack at least twice a day just so I can use them mobile. But when I can't do that, the ER4's do well enough.

 

[Obizzz]

Would it be possible to EQ the ER2SE so it sounds exactly like the ER2XR? Is there any physical difference between their drivers that wouldn't allow them to sound the exact same?

IIRC there is some internal venting for the driver but I'm not 100% sure. I bet you could get very very close with EQ.

Personally I prefer ER2SE over ER2XR as I find the XR bass bleeds to much into the mids.

 

[flaviowolff]

IIRC there is some internal venting for the driver but I'm not 100% sure. I bet you could get very very close with EQ.

Personally I prefer ER2SE over ER2XR as I find the XR bass bleeds to much into the mids.

I already own the ER2SE, I like it but sometimes I want to tune it's bass to XR levels. I was thinking about replacing it with the XR (I dont like owning different phones) because of this, but if the EQ can give me the XR sound, that would be perfect for the flexibility. Of course, I could get the XR and EQ it to SE, but its always best to stick with what I already have.

I've done some research and yes, the XR is "precisely vented", according to Etymotic itself, while the SE is not.

So, is there a technical reason for a sealed driver to sound any different from a vented driver when EQd to have the same FR?

 

[Ambient384]

I find it hard to EQ their bass response

ER2XR = +6db 125Hz - If you want mimic it on a ER4, The ER4XR already has 3.5db more than the ER2SE/ER4SR. No idea why Reddit hypes the ER2XR so much when the decay & pretty weak detail get in the way, The ER4SR/ER3SE have no issue outputting 9db+ seem to blow the ER2 out the water performance wise.

 

[JanesJr1]

ER2XR = +6db 125Hz - If you want mimic it on a ER4, The ER4XR already has 3.5db more than the ER2SE/ER4SR. No idea why Reddit hypes the ER2XR so much when the decay & pretty weak detail get in the way, The ER4SR/ER3SE have no issue outputting 9db+ seem to blow the ER2 out the water performance wise.

I actually prefer the bass on the ER4XR on some material, as long as it doesn't get into the mids. It can make bass that sounds a little tubby around the lower mids and upper bass, or percussion that's a little thick or cottony , especially on my HD6XX's and sometimes on the ER2XR, sound tighter. When the ER4's tighten up the bass, separation usually also improves. That said, the ER2's do have a more natural bass resonance on some material. It probably includes distortion, but it sometimes sounds really good. Some percussion transients benefit from the ER2's, as well. This is all subjective, but that's my take.

 

[Ambient384]

I actually prefer the bass on the ER4XR on some material, as long as it doesn't get into the mids. It can make bass that sounds a little tubby around the lower mids and upper bass, or percussion that's a little thick or cottony , especially on my HD6XX's and sometimes on the ER2XR, sound tighter. When the ER4's tighten up the bass, separation usually also improves. That said, the ER2's do have a more natural bass resonance on some material. It probably includes distortion, but it sometimes sounds really good. Some percussion transients benefit from the ER2's, as well. This is all subjective, but that's my take.

This backs up my view Dynamic drivers are the transducer answer to vinyl. Since I don't buy that the ER2 is <0.4% bass wise since the 2XR had a lot 2nd order THD at 3.2%, It could explain why the ER4XR sounds clean & HD to the ER2SE with 4db bass boost. I find the ER4XR has a 2db bump at 190Hz, This is why I like the ER4SR/ER3SE It easier to get a sub bass focused boost since my sweet-spot is 6db ~ 8db.

The ER4SR really underrated It can be EQ'd into fun bass cannons with 5mm drivers while being <0.4% at 1KHz.

 

[flaviowolff]

ER2XR = +6db 125Hz - If you want mimic it on a ER4, The ER4XR already has 3.5db more than the ER2SE/ER4SR. No idea why Reddit hypes the ER2XR so much when the decay & pretty weak detail get in the way, The ER4SR/ER3SE have no issue outputting 9db+ seem to blow the ER2 out the water performance wise.

By "+6db 125hz" do you mean a +6db low shelf at 125hz center frequency? At what slope?

 

[Ambient384]

By "+6db 125hz" do you mean a +6db low shelf at 125hz center frequency? At what slope?

It "Q 0.7" that was Peace EQ defaults to with low shelf boosts. It really impressive at how much bass the ER3/ER4 can output with single BA.

 

[flaviowolff]

It "Q 0.7" that was Peace EQ defaults to with low shelf boosts. It really impressive at how much bass the ER3/ER4 can output with single BA.

Thanks, I just applied it (+6db) to my ER2SE and it sounds really nice. Close to ER2XR, I guess?

 

[Ambient384]

Thanks, I just applied it (+6db) to my ER2SE and it sounds really nice. Close to ER2XR, I guess?

Going by Crin's EQ it 95% close. My ER3SE sounds like my older bassier IEM's but with planar decay & detail on top, yet It uses a full range BA.

 

[MKreroo]

It "Q 0.7" that was Peace EQ defaults to with low shelf boosts. It really impressive at how much bass the ER3/ER4 can output with single BA.

If I were to do -6db with same setting on a XR will it similar to the SE?

 

[Ambient384]

If I were to do -6db with same setting on a XR will it similar to the SE?

It -3.5db for ER4XR.