Ending the Windows Audio Quality Debate

[MaxwellsEq]

If you are interested, their manual is really well done and contains a lot of neat background info

The manual is superb and covers the complexity of the device. Every time I pick it up I spot something I missed in the past.

 

[Sernyl]

Sorry to be so late :
Is EAPO usefull with the "Realtek optical output" ALC1220 chip I have on my MB ?
BTW it does not seem to be worse than an external Xmos USB to optical box.
Thanks by advance,

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Sorry to be so late :
Is EAPO usefull with the "Realtek optical output" ALC1220 chip I have on my MB ?
BTW it does not seem to be worse than an external Xmos USB to optical box.
Thanks by advance,

It doesn't have anything to do with chipsets or connections. It allows Windows to support PEQ, and as a side-effect can override some nasty Windows behaviours.

 

[Sernyl]

Thank you for the answer.
English is not my native language.
I mentionned the chipset just in case.
If I understand correctly, you mean that an optical audio output is, like the analog one, affected by "some nasty Windows behaviours" ?
Regards,

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Thank you for the answer.
English is not my native language.
I mentionned the chipset just in case.
If I understand correctly, you mean that an optical audio output is, like the analog one, affected by "some nasty Windows behaviours" ?
Regards,

Imagine you have a recording of Beetles"Help" stored on your PC's hard drive as help.flac. You want to listen to it.

You plug headphones into your PC and use a player like Foobar2000 to play it, but you don't want to use "Exclusive Mode" because you also want to use software to EQ it. Between the player and the headphones are a bunch of Windows functions (some are APOs). Some are native Windows, some come from drivers shipped with audio devices. You can't see them. Some degrade the sound a lot (e.g. by compression).

So you decide to buy a DAC and plug it into the USB port. BUT, these Windows APO functions sit between your player and the DAC plugged into your USB port.

So you decide to plug the DAC into the optical port. BUT, these Windows APO functions sit between your player and the DAC plugged into your optical port.

They are always there whether you use the onboard chipset, a USB connected device, an optical connection. You can bypass them by using Exclusive Mode on your player, but this can limit some control of some DACs and prevent you applying equalisation.

EAPO is another APO, that sits between your player and the onboard chipset, USB DAC or Optical DAC. It allows PEQ. It also has an option to DISABLE other APOs including the Windows limiter. This can have a very big benefit in sound quality.

 

[Sernyl]

They are always there whether you use the onboard chipset, a USB connected device, an optical connection. You can bypass them by using Exclusive Mode on your player, but this can limit some control of some DACs and prevent you applying equalisation.

EAPO is another APO, that sits between your player and the onboard chipset, USB DAC or Optical DAC. It allows PEQ. It also has an option to DISABLE other APOs including the Windows limiter. This can have a very big benefit in sound quality.

Thanks again for the explanation.
In my case, I'm already using Foobar and "Exclusive Mode" only, and downstream control is done with the ADI-2 pro.
Looks like I don't need EAPO in this configuration, right ?

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Thanks again for the explanation.
In my case, I'm already using Foobar and "Exclusive Mode" only, and downstream control is done with the ADI-2 pro.
Looks like I don't need EAPO in this configuration, right ?

That's correct. Using exclusive mode means EAPO would not be used. If you want to do EQ in Foobar2000, there is the MathAudio plug-in.

 

[Skydeaner]

I know this post is a couple of years old but I am extremely thankful for your time testing this. I registered just to say this and I've never been to these forums but it looks like it's gonna be a lot of fun. Anyways Thanks again @DDF for your hard work.

 

[Rednaxela]

Sorry if this has has been discussed already, but I ran into something that might be of interest here.

Context: applying an EQAPO filter set on the 3.5mm headphones out of my Windows 11 Acer laptop, to equalize a pair of IEMs.

Windows uses audio processing objects (APOs) to provide software based digital signal processing for it's audio streams. First Surprise: Some hidden non defeatable APO made a mess of it, even with "all effects off' in Windows. Naughty Windows! My music system and work PCs didn't show this issue, so it may be caused by an APO for the Dell Realtek soundcard. To verify the measurement, I retested with RMAA's spectrum analyzer and the tones at a lower level (to make sure it wasn't intermediate clipping or the CAudioLimiter). Same outcome.

To try and fix this, I then installed (free) Equalizer APO (EAPO). This brilliant software supports a trouble shooting mode that turns off all "original" (stock) system APOs:

On my laptop, this setting at 3) is grayed out.

It is also unchecked. So initally I thought all was good.


Thing is, EQAPO requires Audio enhancements to be switched on.

(Image taken from here for the English UI.)


However, switching between Device Default Effects and Off resulted in a very noticeable sound difference. Like operating a loudness button - really nothing subtle. As I had all EQAPO filters disengaged, and the EQAPO configuration settings were as outlined above, I did not expect to hear any sound change.


Turns out that the difference was caused by Acer TrueHarmony. I found it in the Realtek Audio Console.

Long story short, I now have this switched off as well, and hear no more difference between the two Windows Audio enhancements settings.


I am not sure what this all means. It appears that despite the findings shared by the OP there may still be things going on outside of what is covered by their recommendations in the first post. Sadly I don't have the gear (and frankly the skills) to establish for sure that I killed all additional processing. But hearing no differences between enhancements on and off does give me some peace of mind.

In any case I'm glad to eventually have found this TrueHarmony switch and hope this info is of help to some.

 

[Mossshine]

This guide saved my life. Jokes aside, before using APO and setting preamp to -4dB I had sound "ducking", for example music player would get quieter for a bit when someone in browser on stream spoke due to the limiter Windows uses, nasty stuff, since you cannot set priorities for different programs. Thanks! now I can hear music and the person speaking, not just either of those

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

This guide saved my life. Jokes aside, before using APO and setting preamp to -4dB I had sound "ducking", for example music player would get quieter for a bit when someone in browser on stream spoke due to the limiter Windows uses, nasty stuff, since you cannot set priorities for different programs. Thanks! now I can hear music and the person speaking, not just either of those

You got random noises but lowering the pre amp fix the problem?

 

[Taralius]

• Install Equalizer APO and use it to disable original APOs and set EAPO's preamp gain at ~ -4 dB to avoid upsample overs, filtering induced peaks, and the Windows CAudioLimiter
• Set Windows audio to 24 bits so that it's added dither doesn't compromise dynamic range
• Set Windows sample rate to the same rate as the native file, or to 96 kHz if you play back high resolution material
• Turn off Windows system sounds and enhancements
• Install "remote desktop" for "Spotify Connect"-like added convenience, for all your digital sources
• Take the money saved and buy more music, better speakers and a few bottles of wine

I understand that, even if no filtering is applied, Equaliser APO will need to constantly run for the changes to have effect. Is this correct?

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

A debate has been long raging in the audio community that Windows isn't fit for use in a high resolution audio system. Sceptics counterargued that bits are bits and Windows audio degradations are a figment of an over-active audiophile imagination.

I decided to investigate this as I kept hearing issues with Windows, even after following common practice to (controversially) supposedly make it clean. I found some surprises along the way.

Sorry for the long post but my motivation is to share how to get effectively perfect audio from Windows, to save folks money and headaches, and to help end the endless debates. I'm including supporting objective test evidence in keeping with the spirit of ASR.

Over time, pieces of the "Windows audio sucks" puzzle emerged, but never a complete picture:

• Benchmark popularized that upsampling causes intersample-overs and clipping distortion within DAC chips. This is fixed by adding some Windows' volume loss
• Archimago showed that the Windows 10 upsampler (as of 2015) had significant performance issues. Avoiding the upsampler was the solution
• Mathew Van Eerde showed that Windows has an embedded limiter (CAudioLimiter) that can cause distortion if the signal is near full scale. But I've seen no study on what to do about it. Was the limiter at the input of Windows audio engine, the output, or both? Do all sources needed to have volume reduced or would Windows' global volume work? I decided to find out.

A commonplace sledge hammer detente is to just give up and use ASIO or WASAPI exclusive and bypass Windows' audio engine all together, for bit perfect operation.

I was unhappy with this answer. I want better than bit perfect: a high performance digital filter engine to correct my room modes below Schroeder or to equalize (i.e. correct) my headphones regardless of what I was listening to, with Window's ease of use for all my audio sources. The common recommendation was yet another sledgehammer: buy expensive external hardware filtering boxes (e.g. RME or miniDSP SHD).

This just seemed wrong to me, it felt like giving up. External hardware adds cost and ironically ties you to hardware with frequency resolution lower than Windows can deliver with a more convenient integrated free software solution like Equalizer APO. But how about the performance of EAPO, is it "good enough"? Again, an online search turned up no answers. So I decided to answer that too.

The first step was to find test signals that could be viewed as faultless, with self distortion well below 24 bits. After performing a large study of the free REW and Audacity's tone generators (including trade off with bit rate and the performance of the various types of dither), I found their performance far outstripped even professional external hardware generators costing in the thousands (full disclosure, I used to work in an audio lab). As an example, this REW multi tone test stimulus (24 bit 44.1kHz with dither) was used in my measurements. Distortion components are >170 dB down. Ignore the noise floor, it has FFT gain, but it's "way down there".

View attachment 106545

All the measurements that follow are purely digital using REW through the Windows audio stack with no A/D or D/A conversions, and so any faults are Windows' alone.

Hidden APOs
Playing the multitone file through the Windows audio stack on my family Dell tower XPS8300, with no volume loss, no filters, all system sounds off, all effects disabled etc:

View attachment 106547
Windows uses audio processing objects (APOs) to provide software based digital signal processing for it's audio streams. First Surprise: Some hidden non defeatable APO made a mess of it, even with "all effects off' in Windows. Naughty Windows! My music system and work PCs didn't show this issue, so it may be caused by an APO for the Dell Realtek soundcard. To verify the measurement, I retested with RMAA's spectrum analyzer and the tones at a lower level (to make sure it wasn't intermediate clipping or the CAudioLimiter). Same outcome.

To try and fix this, I then installed (free) Equalizer APO (EAPO). This brilliant software supports a trouble shooting mode that turns off all "original" (stock) system APOs:

View attachment 106550

Result? Effective bit perfection through the Windows audio stack: first distortion component @ -170dB, per the source file:

View attachment 106552

The lesson here is that if your music system is Windows based, to guarantee no funny business from Windows audio, install EAPO even if you don't use filtering, and shut off "original APOs".

CAudioLimiter
Now, lets tackle CAudioLimiter. This is a level limiter built into the Windows audio stack that reduces the digital signal level if it approaches full scale. Benchmark and other sources have illustrated that such high signal level signals are not so uncommon in digital music files.

To test the CAudioLimiter, REW was used to generate a single test tone @ 0 dBFS, 24 bit. The first distortion component of the REW source tone is ~ -160 dB (again ignore noise floor due to FFT gain):

View attachment 106553

Here's CAudioLimiter's nasty fingerprint when this is played back without any loss. See how the limiter knocks the output down to -0.12 dBFS but adds a spray of distortion:

View attachment 106554

Using EAPO to set a pre-amp loss of 0.2 dB (loss with an input APO) completely avoids the CAudioLimiter. I think 150 dB dynamic range to the first distortion component should be good enough for even the fussiest audio junkie:

View attachment 106555

Filter Induced Digital Peaking
Perhaps less well known is that high pass filtering can also cause digital clipping, even if the filter only adds loss. How can this happen? The filter changes phase response which can then change how the different frequencies constructively add in the audio envelope. A good illustration of this is here.

This is a digital problem, not a Windows problem. Thankfully, the same solution used to avoid intersample overs, 4 dB digital preamp loss, should provide enough margin for this in practice as well.

Is EAPO "good enough"?
OK, so adding some loss in an input APO solves our clipping and limiter issues. Next question: what about EAPO, is it's performance really "good enough"? To answer this, I tested EAPO with this complex filter set (highest frequency notch is @ 100Hz)

View attachment 106556

Here's EAPOs digital output with the prior 4 tone REW test stimulus. Faultless, as expected from 32bit float processing used by EAPO:

View attachment 106557

EAPO also gets a knock for using "textbook" filters. These are known to cause "cramping" in high frequencies. In short, cramping is when the PEQ filter "bell" shape gets increasingly asymmetrical as it approaches half the sample rate. So I looked into this as well. In a nice outcome, it turns out that the filters generated by REW using "generic filter" setting are the same filters implemented by EAPO. What you see is what you get when using filters designed by REW, implemented by EAPO.

Upsampling Performance
Another question is whether automatic sample rate switching is needed in Windows, or if a fixed high sample rate can be set, relying on Windows upsampling. Archimago showed that Windows upsampling performed poorly in 2015, but I think the jury is still out. My testing in Dec '20 shows that the Windows upsampler is probably more than good enough. It appears like Windows made improvements since 2015. Playing a 44.1kHz file with upsampling to 96kHz, 24 bits, and EAPO set to -0.2 dB to avoid CAudioLimiter, the highest distortion component was at -134 dB:

View attachment 106575

If you're fussy (like I am), you can change the sample rate when playing back high resolution material, but I think leaving it set at 96kHz should be more than good enough.

Windows "Remote Desktop"
To sweeten the deal, Windows also provides the convenience of free remote desktop from your Android phone. You can sit in front of your speakers and tweak settings, and adjust EQ's etc in real time. This provides the same convenience as "Spotify Connect" but for all music sources whether Tidal or local file playback etc.

What About Analog?
I also want to address how to make this all work for you analog junkies. I own a pile of vinyl and a nice table so had to solve this for myself. I use a low cost external USB A/D tested in loopback showing >100 dB SNR, which blows away the performance of any RIAA preamplifier in front of it. I plumb that into the PC and through EAPO get all the same benefits of room and headphone equalization from vinyl. Getting this right ensures not clipping the A/D. I've created a separate spreadsheet to achieve this, but its beyond the scope here.

Summary Recommendations:

• Install Equalizer APO and use it to disable original APOs and set EAPO's preamp gain at ~ -4 dB to avoid upsample overs, filtering induced peaks, and the Windows CAudioLimiter
• Set Windows audio to 24 bits so that it's added dither doesn't compromise dynamic range
• Set Windows sample rate to the same rate as the native file, or to 96 kHz if you play back high resolution material
• Turn off Windows system sounds and enhancements
• Install "remote desktop" for "Spotify Connect"-like added convenience, for all your digital sources
• Take the money saved and buy more music, better speakers and a few bottles of wine

If set up correctly, Windows can provide clean, faultless audio and (free) high performance equalization which provides enormous pleasure and fidelity improvement that I think any open minded audio fan could get behind. All with the performance and convenience beyond external costly hardware solutions.

I'm hoping you found this helpful.

The only thing that i didn't understand is why check off the boxes in '' use original apo '' by default it checked... what does that? i dont get it, i use APO EQ for... it's EQ

The other thing is, why do the anti clipping in my APO so hard? xD i get -7dB just for the red clip, i don't know why

 

[Robbo99999]

I understand that, even if no filtering is applied, Equaliser APO will need to constantly run for the changes to have effect. Is this correct?

Equaliser APO changes are reboot persistent - ie you don't need to open Equaliser APO again after a reboot or shutdown, the changes will remain. The only caveat to this is if you've done a Windows Update which can sometimes delete those changes, in which case you have to run Equaliser APO again, and it'll say something like you have to configure Equaliser APO again for the device - ie you select which audio output device you want the Equaliser APO to affect - which is same process as if you were installing Equaliser APO for the first time. I've not explained that last point well, but basically Equaliser APO is reboot persistent so you don't have to load up Equaliser APO each time you reboot your computer, but be aware Windows Updates can sometimes "break" your configuration of Equaliser APO at which point you just have to run Equaliser APO & it will then prompt you what you need to do to fix the situation.

 

[edechamps]

I understand that, even if no filtering is applied, Equaliser APO will need to constantly run for the changes to have effect. Is this correct?

If your question is "do I need to keep Equalizer APO opened for it to work", the answer is no. APOs are loaded by Windows itself in the background when audio streaming starts, and do not require any user interaction once set up. The audio is not streaming through the Equalizer APO "app".

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

What do the '' loudness eq '' ? in downs adv options

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

A debate has been long raging in the audio community that Windows isn't fit for use in a high resolution audio system. Sceptics counterargued that bits are bits and Windows audio degradations are a figment of an over-active audiophile imagination.

I decided to investigate this as I kept hearing issues with Windows, even after following common practice to (controversially) supposedly make it clean. I found some surprises along the way.

Sorry for the long post but my motivation is to share how to get effectively perfect audio from Windows, to save folks money and headaches, and to help end the endless debates. I'm including supporting objective test evidence in keeping with the spirit of ASR.

Over time, pieces of the "Windows audio sucks" puzzle emerged, but never a complete picture:

• Benchmark popularized that upsampling causes intersample-overs and clipping distortion within DAC chips. This is fixed by adding some Windows' volume loss
• Archimago showed that the Windows 10 upsampler (as of 2015) had significant performance issues. Avoiding the upsampler was the solution
• Mathew Van Eerde showed that Windows has an embedded limiter (CAudioLimiter) that can cause distortion if the signal is near full scale. But I've seen no study on what to do about it. Was the limiter at the input of Windows audio engine, the output, or both? Do all sources needed to have volume reduced or would Windows' global volume work? I decided to find out.

A commonplace sledge hammer detente is to just give up and use ASIO or WASAPI exclusive and bypass Windows' audio engine all together, for bit perfect operation.

I was unhappy with this answer. I want better than bit perfect: a high performance digital filter engine to correct my room modes below Schroeder or to equalize (i.e. correct) my headphones regardless of what I was listening to, with Window's ease of use for all my audio sources. The common recommendation was yet another sledgehammer: buy expensive external hardware filtering boxes (e.g. RME or miniDSP SHD).

This just seemed wrong to me, it felt like giving up. External hardware adds cost and ironically ties you to hardware with frequency resolution lower than Windows can deliver with a more convenient integrated free software solution like Equalizer APO. But how about the performance of EAPO, is it "good enough"? Again, an online search turned up no answers. So I decided to answer that too.

The first step was to find test signals that could be viewed as faultless, with self distortion well below 24 bits. After performing a large study of the free REW and Audacity's tone generators (including trade off with bit rate and the performance of the various types of dither), I found their performance far outstripped even professional external hardware generators costing in the thousands (full disclosure, I used to work in an audio lab). As an example, this REW multi tone test stimulus (24 bit 44.1kHz with dither) was used in my measurements. Distortion components are >170 dB down. Ignore the noise floor, it has FFT gain, but it's "way down there".

View attachment 106545

All the measurements that follow are purely digital using REW through the Windows audio stack with no A/D or D/A conversions, and so any faults are Windows' alone.

Hidden APOs
Playing the multitone file through the Windows audio stack on my family Dell tower XPS8300, with no volume loss, no filters, all system sounds off, all effects disabled etc:

View attachment 106547
Windows uses audio processing objects (APOs) to provide software based digital signal processing for it's audio streams. First Surprise: Some hidden non defeatable APO made a mess of it, even with "all effects off' in Windows. Naughty Windows! My music system and work PCs didn't show this issue, so it may be caused by an APO for the Dell Realtek soundcard. To verify the measurement, I retested with RMAA's spectrum analyzer and the tones at a lower level (to make sure it wasn't intermediate clipping or the CAudioLimiter). Same outcome.

To try and fix this, I then installed (free) Equalizer APO (EAPO). This brilliant software supports a trouble shooting mode that turns off all "original" (stock) system APOs:

View attachment 106550

Result? Effective bit perfection through the Windows audio stack: first distortion component @ -170dB, per the source file:

View attachment 106552

The lesson here is that if your music system is Windows based, to guarantee no funny business from Windows audio, install EAPO even if you don't use filtering, and shut off "original APOs".

CAudioLimiter
Now, lets tackle CAudioLimiter. This is a level limiter built into the Windows audio stack that reduces the digital signal level if it approaches full scale. Benchmark and other sources have illustrated that such high signal level signals are not so uncommon in digital music files.

To test the CAudioLimiter, REW was used to generate a single test tone @ 0 dBFS, 24 bit. The first distortion component of the REW source tone is ~ -160 dB (again ignore noise floor due to FFT gain):

View attachment 106553

Here's CAudioLimiter's nasty fingerprint when this is played back without any loss. See how the limiter knocks the output down to -0.12 dBFS but adds a spray of distortion:

View attachment 106554

Using EAPO to set a pre-amp loss of 0.2 dB (loss with an input APO) completely avoids the CAudioLimiter. I think 150 dB dynamic range to the first distortion component should be good enough for even the fussiest audio junkie:

View attachment 106555

Filter Induced Digital Peaking
Perhaps less well known is that high pass filtering can also cause digital clipping, even if the filter only adds loss. How can this happen? The filter changes phase response which can then change how the different frequencies constructively add in the audio envelope. A good illustration of this is here.

This is a digital problem, not a Windows problem. Thankfully, the same solution used to avoid intersample overs, 4 dB digital preamp loss, should provide enough margin for this in practice as well.

Is EAPO "good enough"?
OK, so adding some loss in an input APO solves our clipping and limiter issues. Next question: what about EAPO, is it's performance really "good enough"? To answer this, I tested EAPO with this complex filter set (highest frequency notch is @ 100Hz)

View attachment 106556

Here's EAPOs digital output with the prior 4 tone REW test stimulus. Faultless, as expected from 32bit float processing used by EAPO:

View attachment 106557

EAPO also gets a knock for using "textbook" filters. These are known to cause "cramping" in high frequencies. In short, cramping is when the PEQ filter "bell" shape gets increasingly asymmetrical as it approaches half the sample rate. So I looked into this as well. In a nice outcome, it turns out that the filters generated by REW using "generic filter" setting are the same filters implemented by EAPO. What you see is what you get when using filters designed by REW, implemented by EAPO.

Upsampling Performance
Another question is whether automatic sample rate switching is needed in Windows, or if a fixed high sample rate can be set, relying on Windows upsampling. Archimago showed that Windows upsampling performed poorly in 2015, but I think the jury is still out. My testing in Dec '20 shows that the Windows upsampler is probably more than good enough. It appears like Windows made improvements since 2015. Playing a 44.1kHz file with upsampling to 96kHz, 24 bits, and EAPO set to -0.2 dB to avoid CAudioLimiter, the highest distortion component was at -134 dB:

View attachment 106575

If you're fussy (like I am), you can change the sample rate when playing back high resolution material, but I think leaving it set at 96kHz should be more than good enough.

Windows "Remote Desktop"
To sweeten the deal, Windows also provides the convenience of free remote desktop from your Android phone. You can sit in front of your speakers and tweak settings, and adjust EQ's etc in real time. This provides the same convenience as "Spotify Connect" but for all music sources whether Tidal or local file playback etc.

What About Analog?
I also want to address how to make this all work for you analog junkies. I own a pile of vinyl and a nice table so had to solve this for myself. I use a low cost external USB A/D tested in loopback showing >100 dB SNR, which blows away the performance of any RIAA preamplifier in front of it. I plumb that into the PC and through EAPO get all the same benefits of room and headphone equalization from vinyl. Getting this right ensures not clipping the A/D. I've created a separate spreadsheet to achieve this, but its beyond the scope here.

Summary Recommendations:

• Install Equalizer APO and use it to disable original APOs and set EAPO's preamp gain at ~ -4 dB to avoid upsample overs, filtering induced peaks, and the Windows CAudioLimiter
• Set Windows audio to 24 bits so that it's added dither doesn't compromise dynamic range
• Set Windows sample rate to the same rate as the native file, or to 96 kHz if you play back high resolution material
• Turn off Windows system sounds and enhancements
• Install "remote desktop" for "Spotify Connect"-like added convenience, for all your digital sources
• Take the money saved and buy more music, better speakers and a few bottles of wine

If set up correctly, Windows can provide clean, faultless audio and (free) high performance equalization which provides enormous pleasure and fidelity improvement that I think any open minded audio fan could get behind. All with the performance and convenience beyond external costly hardware solutions.

I'm hoping you found this helpful.

If i check the box of dissable all enc i have crazy clipping while im listening

 

[MaxwellsEq]

If i check the box of dissable all enc i have crazy clipping while im listening
View attachment 370670

Reduce the gain. Lower the level from the player.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Reduce the gain. Lower the level from the player.

The gain was -7db it lower the gain to -30dB, yeah it start to lower like crazy after check that box
edit: if i save the settting and restart the computer, i get again the uncheck box..lol start to lower auto the pre gain but at the same time don't lower the volume, whats this

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Reduce the gain. Lower the level from the player.

i lowered the gain from the player, but listening music is not the only thing i do

While i dont get the crazy -30dB now, i don't see that bar moving now

What exactly do the '' dissable all enc '' if i dont have any check box below? i still get the cleaner -170dB bitperfect thing mentioned by DDF? ty
EDIT: I did say '' i dont get the crazy -30dB '' but i noticed APO EQ is not working now when i use the dissable all enc... ?