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All were purchased 2nd hand by me. I owned 3 pairs 10 years or more. Some were around 20 years old when I last used them.
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Electrostatic speakers?
- Thread starter Pearljam5000
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I was interested in getting some Martin Logan ESL's for a second system some time ago. From my research the main concern is the electrostatic panel only lasting around 10 years or so. Martin Logan keep spare parts for older models in stock, but at a very steep price.
You will see many Martin Logan ESL for sale on the used market around that 10 year old mark, kind of like how people sell their cars when an expensive service is due.
It is also fairly common for Martin Logan owners to do some crazy things to prolong the life of the panels, such as using vaccum cleaners and washing the panels in soapy water.
At the end of the day I avoided buying a pair sadly.
You will see many Martin Logan ESL for sale on the used market around that 10 year old mark, kind of like how people sell their cars when an expensive service is due.
It is also fairly common for Martin Logan owners to do some crazy things to prolong the life of the panels, such as using vaccum cleaners and washing the panels in soapy water.
At the end of the day I avoided buying a pair sadly.
Please don't buy used ML's, you will be going crazy as they degrade and start getting channel imbalance and SQ degradation.
Even refurbished, they will be on the way out again in the next few years. So far the only ESL that folks say doesn't degrade is Acoustat.
When buying used ESL you also never know how the speaker performs and how much life they have left in them, unless you know the model/brand perfectly to know what to expect in terms of sound, and if they have been refurbished - who did it, what kind of foil, what kind of coating, when was it done?
Just my .02 - I never liked ML's becuase of the soundstage, always felt very diffused and unprecise. Old quad ESL's were similar in that regard.
Even refurbished, they will be on the way out again in the next few years. So far the only ESL that folks say doesn't degrade is Acoustat.
When buying used ESL you also never know how the speaker performs and how much life they have left in them, unless you know the model/brand perfectly to know what to expect in terms of sound, and if they have been refurbished - who did it, what kind of foil, what kind of coating, when was it done?
Just my .02 - I never liked ML's becuase of the soundstage, always felt very diffused and unprecise. Old quad ESL's were similar in that regard.
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I own them since 2 years but they were not new, the dealer had them in a showroom for about 1,5 years. I received a full 5 year warranty though and paid about half of the MSRP (which is higher in Germany due to transport etc). So it was - and still is - fine. I like the concept with the active woofer section (with ARC Room correction) very much, plus the transparency of the sound.
So, nothing to complain about, but no real longterm experience...
Just noticed that there is another thread on ESL here:
www.audiosciencereview.com
@BDWoody @AdamG247 mind moving this thread over?
Electrostatic speakers?
I see no discussion about them around here, are they that bad? Martin Logans look pretty cool.
www.audiosciencereview.com
@BDWoody @AdamG247 mind moving this thread over?
Done!Just noticed that there is another thread on ESL here:
Electrostatic speakers?
I see no discussion about them around here, are they that bad? Martin Logans look pretty cool.
@BDWoody @AdamG247 mind moving this thread over?
I bought my Martin Logan reQuest in 1998, so they are 25+ years old now.
I've kept the panels covered with a jersy "body pillow" case - stretchy fabric like a T-shirt.
They might dim a little when the humidity is extreme, like open windows when it is foggy outside.
The measurement rolls a little in the top half octave, but the impedance drops very low there too, and i can't hear it so it's moot to me. Other measurements have shown flat to 20k.
Impedance and phase of prior model:
The last time I measured mine - which has been a while now... Left and right, with and without AcourateDRC:
Maybe some have problems, I don't see anything "deal breaking" with mine after 25 years.
Lastly, comparing the corrected "in-room" RTA response - both speakers playing, with the left and right source (from CD) RTA:
Not enough difference for me to chase anything else.
Even the top octave appears to track correctly there.
A little hole in the bass centered around 48hz due to interaction with my asymmetrical room. Doesn't show up much with a stereo bass signal.
I've kept the panels covered with a jersy "body pillow" case - stretchy fabric like a T-shirt.
They might dim a little when the humidity is extreme, like open windows when it is foggy outside.
The measurement rolls a little in the top half octave, but the impedance drops very low there too, and i can't hear it so it's moot to me. Other measurements have shown flat to 20k.
Impedance and phase of prior model:
The last time I measured mine - which has been a while now... Left and right, with and without AcourateDRC:
Maybe some have problems, I don't see anything "deal breaking" with mine after 25 years.
Lastly, comparing the corrected "in-room" RTA response - both speakers playing, with the left and right source (from CD) RTA:
Not enough difference for me to chase anything else.
Even the top octave appears to track correctly there.
A little hole in the bass centered around 48hz due to interaction with my asymmetrical room. Doesn't show up much with a stereo bass signal.
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That kinda answers my question about humidity.
Clever (but simple) countermeasures! +1
"Who woulda thunk it?" kind.
A "speaker-sock" waiting to be trademarked.
Matching "ear-muffs" next??
mhardy6647
Grand Contributor
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In the Bay State, it would be wicked averse.
Back then, listening was so civilizedI own a pair, it wasn't hard.
There aren't that many folks on this forum.
The ESL-57 was in production for a long time.
QED
Plus, there was my addendum -- or at least spend a good chunk of time listening to a pair.
Y'all can come over any time, post-COVID!
PS Just one is OK, too. When they came out, most systems (especially in the UK) were still mono.
View attachment 104945
And on a more serious note. Placing the panel like that probably helps with the beaming.Back then, listening was so civilized
Anybody to discuss the inherent chaotic behaviour of ESL due to self-inflicting mirror charges? Let alone the non-linear behaviour of the suspension introducing traveling waves whilst not having real damping (see above, to the contrary)?
The original question was why ESL were not disussed that prominently. May be because the common attribtutions of 'most linear because of ...' won't hold in reality. The effort is massive on the other hand.
Anybody who measured the local velocity profile of an ESL membrane at different spots in nearfield? Theory approved or not? I once saw according measurements that just showed generally inconsistent movement and so would relocate the ESL into the DML domain. Not bad, but theory no.
The original question was why ESL were not disussed that prominently. May be because the common attribtutions of 'most linear because of ...' won't hold in reality. The effort is massive on the other hand.
Anybody who measured the local velocity profile of an ESL membrane at different spots in nearfield? Theory approved or not? I once saw according measurements that just showed generally inconsistent movement and so would relocate the ESL into the DML domain. Not bad, but theory no.
I have owned, in the electrostatic of speakers:
KLH Model 9’s
Quad 57’s
Levinson HQD System
Quad 63’s
… and finally, my Swan Song System at 82 years off age: Sanders 10e System
Please see Robert E. Greene’s review from Absolute Sound. Although a dreaded “Subjectivist” , he is a PhD mathematician and a professional violinist, who plays with a symphony orchestra. https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sanders-model-10e-hybrid-electrostatic-loudspeaker/
i trust his opinions more than almost any other reviewer, along with our own Kal Rubinson in my elite group.
That said, I have waited for years to be able to purchase a set and have, last month, done so. I had them installed by a professional dealer in high end sound and theatre
equipment (I am sadly disabled and unable to accomplish the task).
Should you read the REG review, it reflects my own opinion, having lived with them for a month.
The electronics in place:
Analog: Technics SL1210 with various cartridges and head amps (My vinyl collection dates from Mono LP‘s in 1958)
Digital: Apple MacBook Pro; Sony SACD player; NAD CD Player; Benchmark DAC3 HCG and 2 x ABH2 Amplifiers
As indicated, I do not anticipate any change in speakers nor electronics - my only regret is the amount of time I have remaining to enjoy them!
Tillman
(As always ; De gustibus non est disputandum!)
KLH Model 9’s
Quad 57’s
Levinson HQD System
Quad 63’s
… and finally, my Swan Song System at 82 years off age: Sanders 10e System
Please see Robert E. Greene’s review from Absolute Sound. Although a dreaded “Subjectivist” , he is a PhD mathematician and a professional violinist, who plays with a symphony orchestra. https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sanders-model-10e-hybrid-electrostatic-loudspeaker/
i trust his opinions more than almost any other reviewer, along with our own Kal Rubinson in my elite group.
That said, I have waited for years to be able to purchase a set and have, last month, done so. I had them installed by a professional dealer in high end sound and theatre
equipment (I am sadly disabled and unable to accomplish the task).
Should you read the REG review, it reflects my own opinion, having lived with them for a month.
The electronics in place:
Analog: Technics SL1210 with various cartridges and head amps (My vinyl collection dates from Mono LP‘s in 1958)
Digital: Apple MacBook Pro; Sony SACD player; NAD CD Player; Benchmark DAC3 HCG and 2 x ABH2 Amplifiers
As indicated, I do not anticipate any change in speakers nor electronics - my only regret is the amount of time I have remaining to enjoy them!
Tillman
(As always ; De gustibus non est disputandum!)
MRC01
Major Contributor
On a related note regarding longevity with panel speakers (yet not electrostats), my Magneplan 3.6/R are 23 years old and still measure and perform like new. Flat response and very low distortion. Even the tweeters are still original, and that is with daily use powered by a big amp (Adcom 5800 with 450 wpc continuous), occasionally to levels around 100 dB SPL.
Measured at the listening position using REW with Rode NT1A mics, corrected for mic response.
Note the Y scale is 5 dB which accentuates the variations, and absolute numbers are not accurate (it was much louder than 60 dB).
Distortion
Measured at the listening position using REW with Rode NT1A mics, corrected for mic response.
Note the Y scale is 5 dB which accentuates the variations, and absolute numbers are not accurate (it was much louder than 60 dB).
Distortion
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Weird: None of those replying and who bought/owned electrostatics (new/used/refurb) seem to have encountered problems.
Weirder: Those who never owned them seem to be indicating that they would not recommend used purchase.
I had an opportunity to consider purchasing a pair of new electrostatics but I nixed the idea because of coastal (salt-air) living.
From now on, I am keeping my mouth shut if anyone asks about them.
Weirder: Those who never owned them seem to be indicating that they would not recommend used purchase.
I had an opportunity to consider purchasing a pair of new electrostatics but I nixed the idea because of coastal (salt-air) living.
From now on, I am keeping my mouth shut if anyone asks about them.
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Gwreck
Active Member
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- Aug 20, 2022
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I agree that the Sanders model 10 is an amazing speaker.
Increasing the area also increases the capacitive load on the amplifier, making the amplifier's job harder to do.
Lol. Welcome to the internet.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
When I moved to my new sea side house this June, I took my old ML Sequels sitting in my shed to the dump.
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