Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[typericey]

Whether you can hear it or not, the kef R3 smacks them in distortion. CMIIW, I think the kef R3 is the last one that got measured at 105db compared to 96db on the others?

If your going for hifi HT, then you're a fool to take the others over the kef R3.

And I'm not derailing the thread, I own both the R3 and the DBR-62's

The Kef R3 is in a different price category.

 

[maty]

I know you love KEF and love your q100's , however the Q350 has more distortion at 96db than either the Focal or the ELAC.
No spl level is listed for the q100 test, however my guess is that it is not at 96. I seriously doubt the q100 has less distortion at the same spl as the q350 or the LS50.
Id wager the q100 has much more distortion at 96db than the Focal aria 906 and the ELAC dbr62.
In any case...

I always insist that the good KEF Uni-Q coaxial is the small one of 5.25". And that these drivers thank watts (Q100 better with 100 watts at THD 0.1% at 4 Ohms if you listen to good recordings with high DR). Of the new ones, the only one that interests me is the KEF Q150. The cabinet, the crossover can be improved. If a pair of subwoofers are also used (with adjustable phase and not only switchable between 0º and 180º) cut to about 180 Hz much better. Closed the rear bass-reflex. KEF R3 and the old R300 do not perfectly integrate the coaxial driver with the additional woofer.

My listening rarely exceeds 80 dBSPL. Near field. About 65-70 dBSPL continuous. If track with DR15 -> 80 - 85 dB.

Off topic

Yesterday I was doing new simulations for the KEF Q100 crossover. Keep in mind that lowering the original crossover frequency is not a good idea -> increasing distortion in the tweeter. I still do not decide.

 

[tecnogadget]

I always insist that the good KEF Uni-Q coaxial is the small one of 5.25".

Yeah, this must be the 20th time I've read it in multiple threads...
Just in case somebody didn't get it this may come handy

Jokes asides, it makes sense and I agree with your smaller midrange preference. I realized this empirically when 10 years ago I got an inexpensive (around $100) and really small 2-way Bookshelf for surrounds with 4,5" Bass/Midrange drivers.
When crossed with a subwoofer I could fool anybody into thinking they were listening to many times expensive full-size towers. I did also had the step-up version of the same Bookshelf with 5,25" but the smaller sibling had a more accurate tonal balance. So between 4 or 5 inches, it could be the ideal size for a midrange due to the dispersion characteristics.

KEF R3 and the old R300 do not perfectly integrate the coaxial driver with the additional woofer.

Now, this must be like the fifth time I've read this statement...In Amir's multiple and complete measurements there is no evidence of this lack of integration. Do you have any kind of data to back this up besides the fact that @Zvu said the same thing? To just repeat a vague statement is not helpful in understanding a problem.

- Why does the coaxial not perfectly integrate with the additional woofer? Specific reason and data?
- Then if the lack of integration holds true, how could it have been avoided? What is the proposed fix?
(If there is meaningful info for this last questions it may be better to put them on the R3 thread to not derail our Elac friends)

I find it unlikely that in a span of more than 7 years they have not managed to integrate it well in both models. In any case, if the lack of integration is real, it is must be an intentional sound signature if it made into two revisions of the R family. I understand that most problems occur in the crossover between tweeter and midrange, crossing a midrange unit with a bass unit should be less problematic and easier, isn't it?

 

[maty]

What I mean is that KEF has not managed to take advantage of the magic of the small 5.25" coaxial in the old R300 and the new R3. Zvu modified the crossover of the R300 and was not very satisfied with the result, if I remember correctly. Something is missing to make it excellent.

If there are no problems with the woman or space, it is more logical Q100, Q150, R100 or LS50 with a good subwoofer about 80 Hz. If the sound convinces, a second is added and both are cut higher.

Those who live in NA can wait when the Q150s are offered at $ 300.

 

[daftcombo]

I wonder why you are still messing with the crossover after so much time if they are so extraordinary.

 

[maty]

1. Because I have managed to optimize the Q100 sound via software (rePhase+JRMC DSP (PEQ -with delay- and Convolver).

2. The problem is with the woofer, where I got years of substantial improvement after adding a Würth 150 kHz ferrite. Time passes and I still can not find an explanation. Now there is only the original air coil, if I add more components I do not know how it would affect the ferrite. An option that I contemplate is an intermediate step, adding only a capacitor in parallel to the coil but it does not convince me.

3. I have other option: to build a new and bigger cabinet, complex crossover and all possible improvements. Closed.

Very old picture, original crossover + ferrite. Here with both. Sound in "U" -> better only with woofer: "L" sound (more bass, and dry?)

 

[maty]

The frequency response that interests me is between 40º and 60º and not on axis.

 

[renaudrenaud]

Ha @maty you live in Spain but you use Cyrillic characters?

 

[maty]

Latest software improvements

 

[maty]

Ha @maty you live in Spain but you use Cyrillic characters?

Measurements made by Zvu.

 

[renaudrenaud]

Ha sorry.

 

[maty]

Thanks to Zvu I have the coaxial measurements, so I could import them to LspCAD. As my listening is in the near field, they are worth me. In the end I tune with my ear. The right loudspeaker is close to the side wall -> bass boost. And I am not right in the center, almost. Look at the delay, it is minimal, but I can hear it. Or the 0.8 dB increase to 600 Hz. I tried 1 dB first and it was excessive. Well, these speakers make it easier to detect changes.

What I have done for soft is applicable to loudspeakers that have reasonable measurements so that the necessary adjustments are not aggressive. What we cannot change is the drivers distortion.

 

[Absolute]

I think, and this might be only me, that this constant bombardment of old & new Kefs with and without mods in all kinds of threads about different speakers is quite annoying.
Following this thread because I want to read about experiences with the Elac. I don't care about obsolete Kefs in this thread. Or any other thread about certain speakers.

Did I mention that I don't care about Kef in a thread about Elac? Perhaps I should mention that I don't care about Kef in general this particular thread so everybody understands just how much I don't care in general about Kef in a thread about a different speaker.

Specifics like comparing measurements or direct subjective comparisons are ok, not this. Why? Because nobody that want to read about Elac is interested in every other speaker everyone else owns in a thread dedicated to a particular speaker.

Still love you, maty ❤

 

[renaudrenaud]

I think, and this might be only me, that this constant bombardment of old & new Kefs with and without mods in all kinds of threads about different speakers is quite annoying.
Following this thread because I want to read about experiences with the Elac. I don't care about obsolete Kefs in this thread. Or any other thread about certain speakers.

Did I mention that I don't care about Kef in a thread about Elac? Perhaps I should mention that I don't care about Kef in general this particular thread so everybody understands just how much I don't care in general about Kef in a thread about a different speaker.

Specifics like comparing measurements or direct subjective comparisons are ok, not this. Why? Because nobody that want to read about Elac is interested in every other speaker everyone else owns in a thread dedicated to a particular speaker.

Still love you, maty ❤

Maybe I should go on every thread about speakers and write about Elac?

 

[Absolute]

Maybe I should go on every thread about speakers and write about Elac?

Certainly would be nice to be able to read about something other than Kef regardless of where it is

I joke, of course. I have heard rumours about some Revels and JBLs in here also

 

[maty]

What I have commented about my modifications in the KEF is applicable in ELAC and Focal since both have quite good measurements, much better than others much more expensive. But that is not obvious commenting on the limitation they have for those who listen to a certain type of quality recordings.

It is not a matter of going crazy about loudspeakers without trying to optimize them to the maximum while spending as little as possible. With the proper use of good software and a computer we can achieve many improvements, it is the idea that I want to make clear.

Some user of these ELACs could do it and share their modifications here.

 

[renaudrenaud]

What I have commented about my modifications in the KEF is applicable in ELAC and Focal since both have quite good measurements, much better than others much more expensive. But that is not obvious commenting on the limitation they have for those who listen to a certain type of quality recordings.

It is not a matter of going crazy about loudspeakers without trying to optimize them to the maximum while spending as little as possible. With the proper use of good software and a computer we can achieve many improvements, it is the idea that I want to make clear.

Some user of these ELACs could do it and share their modifications here.

Maty... You do know nothing about the quality of what I use to listen. Your remarks tolerable but finally are tiring on the long term.

Kisses.

 

[maty]

I was commenting on good loudspeakers users and not about you.

 

[ex audiophile]

Just set up a new pair of these speakers. Qobuz via Sonos Port into Anthem STR preamp, AHB2 amp in stereo. When I ran ARC I noticed that the levels were set at +12 db for both channels. I have never seen any levels set this high and was wondering if anyone could help me understand why. I normally run 8 ohm speakers with a minimum of 225 watts/channel so I'm guessing that these little guys need more power (spec is 6 ohms). Would it have anything to do with the relatively low power output of the AHB? I guess I'm fishing for an excuse to buy another one. They are so damn cute you almost have to buy two And btw these speakers sound superb, THANK YOU Amir, never would have bought them without your review.

 

[Zvu]

Technogadget, Maty, Absolute, Renaudrenaud...

You guys are awesome