Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[dwkdnvr]

The JDS Labs Atom of speakers ?

Not quite but pretty close ...

Now we just need the amp. The Neurochrome Mod-86 if built from a kit is probably the cheapest top-performing option, but not exactly within reach of most. We're still waiting for a really good inexpensive amp.

I actually suspect that the C-Note kit will end up being the true JDS Atom equivalent in the speaker world, though. $100 for the kit, and I kinda suspect it may actually measure comparably if not better due to the waveguide on the tweeter. The cabinet is pretty cheap though, which may hurt performance. Hopefully we'll see soon.

 

[AudioSceptic]

If the rear panel states 2x8Ohm then that is OK. If it does not then it probably is not OK for 2x8Ohm or even 1x4Ohm. Sometimes amplifier speakers A&B are wired in series. It's rare but I've seen it.

My attempt at being succinct was rubbish. What I meant was, if an amp with good low impedance drive (and a good PS) outputs, say 80W into 8 Ohms, it will output 160 into 4 Ohms.

 

[Doodski]

My attempt at being succinct was rubbish. What I meant was, if an amp with good low impedance drive (and a good PS) outputs, say 80W into 8 Ohms, it will output 160 into 4 Ohms.

Yeah, I was fresh out of the sack this morning when I read your commentary and took it literally True linearity from a amp is nice but all too rare.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Could be, any contemporary versions available? (Harbeth at $2k+ per pair is a little steep).

Prices are crazy these days, but Falcon Acoustics have some nice options, including DIY kits. I'd get one myself, but I already have too many speakers. <https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/.

 

[AudioSceptic]

I think he was trying to compare power ratings, but I could be wrong. As in the 4 Ohm rating is generally 2 times the 8 Ohm rating.

My answer to the question would be, if the amp you are looking at has a 4 ohm rating that is legitimately double the 8 ohm rating, then it's probably a beefy amp.

Exactly! That is (mostly) why some amps with apparently modest 8 Ω ratings can p**s all over some high-end stuff into "difficult" speakers. NAD3020?

 

[Prana Ferox]

Veneer already peeling back visibly where they meet at the edges, so it's obvious all the money went to the important stuff.

I'd be conservative about this but if you put a t-shirt or something over it and then press it down with an iron with some steam, it might glue back into place.

 

[wje]

Toward the end he pulled the old "if you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe what my (insert friend/relative/SO), who has no idea about audio, had to say".

My girlfriend doesn't fully understand this hobby. I'll switch a few pieces of gear in and out during the week. She likes a lot of my choices, but certainly hasn't invested 40 years into this hobby like I have. However, there was one combo that we really agreed on - that wasn't worth the money. It happened to be the McIntosh MA-5200 integrated amplifier paired with the Focal 1008BE speakers. The Focals were great, but the Mc just didn't give us too much of a thrill with the music. In fact, that same afternoon, I put back in the Cambridge CXA80 integrated amplifier - and the music bloomed once again. Just a good British sound that had a better presence. To our ears, it was an eye opener on how the CXA80 (at about $500 used) could musically sound better than the McIntosh MA-5200, which was about $3,500, used. Again, just our impressions because I know plenty of people like Mc gear.

With that being said, I received the shipping notice on the Elac Debut Reference speakers from Audio Advisor. They shipped out today and should arrive on Saturday via FedEx. My girlfriend might leave me when she sees another pair of speakers arrive at the condo along with the Emotiva XSP-1 preamplifier that's also arriving the same day.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

A major cause of the hiss is that there's no resistor padding down the the tweeter in an active speaker, usually on the order of ~ 6 dB. It allows them to use a low power tweeter amp with same maximum SPL capability as delivered by the higher power mid/woofer amp. Not to say they aren't using cheap amps, but apples for apples (ie a passive speaker with a cheap amp), passive will knock hiss down 6 dBish and cost more for the tweeter amp (eg biamp) because it burns up 3/4 of its power into a resistor.

So, active speaker hiss is real.

It is a design choice. They could make a less efficient tweeter. They could reduce the gain of the amplifier driving it. (Not attenuate the input, actually reduce the gain defined by the feedback loop.) There are a whole lot of things to trivially mitigate the hiss. Gain staging is a big part of this. It is not inherent to active speakers. It is IMHO a design flaw that could be solved for cents.
Part of the problem is likely that a single chip two channel amp is used in some cheap actives. The tweeter amp is coasting, but is otherwise identical to the bass driver amp. They probably wear the hiss in exchange for heat generated and more components in a simple potential divider. I do think reducing the gain of the amp would be right answer, but if the tweeter was very efficient they might actually get into stability problems with very low voltage gain.

Talking of "active hiss" starts to get us to the point where it becomes one word, like CD glare. There is no inherent reason why an active speaker should hiss. My DIY one certainly didn't. I don't expect my next ones to either.

 

[pongopygmy]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 bookshelf speaker. It was kindly purchased new and drop shipped to me for testing. The DBR-62 costs US $600 a pair from multiple sources/dealers.

The DBR-62 comes in black and walnut finish or the distressed Oak and white which is what I received:

View attachment 55712​

I really like the baffle, the slot port and woofer. The grill on the tweeter is a bit out of place in my mind but not overly so. Overall, it is a very modern take on speaker design which I like. It comes with a gray patterned grill which can hide the drivers if you like.

So far my reviews of other Andrew Jones speakers has not resulted in any star performers. Some have actually been disappointing. Will the DBR-62 be an exception? Let's find out.

Measurements that you are about to see were performed using the Klippel Near-field Scanner (NFS). This is a robotic measurement system that analyzes the speaker all around and is able (using advanced mathematics and dual scan) to subtract room reflections (so where I measure it doesn't matter). It also measures the speaker at close distance ("near-field") which sharply reduces the impact of room noise. Both of these factors enable testing in ordinary rooms yet results that can be more accurate than anechoic chamber. In a nutshell, the measurements show the actual sound coming out of the speaker independent of the room.

All measurements are reference to tweeter axis with the grill removed. Frequency resolution is 2.7 Hz. Over 700 measurement points were used to assure high precision in higher frequencies, resulting in well under 1% error. I am also using averaging to lower noise in bass frequencies. I also doubled the drive voltage (for spinorama) to overcome low frequency noise in my setting.

All measurements are with no grill and on tweeter axis.

Spinorama Audio Measurements
Acoustic measurements can be grouped in a way that can be perceptually analyzed to determine how good a speaker can be used. This so called spinorama shows us just about everything we need to know about the speaker with respect to tonality and some flaws:

View attachment 55713

On-axis response is quite flat for a budget bookshelf speaker. Yes, there are a few peaks here and there including a resonance around 610 Hz which you can also see in the waterfall display:

View attachment 55714

Predicted in-room response is quite good as well, indicating off-axis performance that is close to on-axis:

View attachment 55715

I note EQ but in later listening, I don't think that is necessary.

Here is the response for the most powerful and audible reflections in a typical room:

View attachment 55718

Minimum impedance is 5 ohm which is above most bookshelf speakers which drop below 4 ohm:

View attachment 55716

However, note the area I have circled. Impedance is high at about 8 ohms but the phase angle is quite acute at nearly 50 degrees. This means the speaker will ask for current when the output voltage is very low. So you better have a beefy amplifier to drive this speaker.

Edit: Distortion measurement

View attachment 55737
Eye-candy Speaker Measurements
Horizontal directivity shows that most of the response enjoys a very wide, nearly 80 degree angle:
View attachment 55719

This means toe-in angle is quite forgiving. And there is wide sweet (listening) spot.

Vertical angle is much worse and is typical of two-way speakers of this design:

View attachment 55720

Which backs my recommendation to absorb those reflections if it doesn't make your room too dead.

I zoomed in the 3-D soundfield at the resonance frequency for fun:


View attachment 55721

On the right is our woofer/port. On the left is the back of the speaker. So it looks like the back is resonating and causing interference pattern with the front wave.

Speaker Listening Tests
Ah, what joy! Just put the ELAC DBR-62 on the stand and with no fiddling/adjusting, etc. it sounded superb! Absolutely superb. Balanced sound with tons of detail. Bass output was impressive. Despite use of a single speaker in my testing, it could fill my massive space with plenty of powerful low energy. Mind you, there was 1000 watts on tap to drive it but still, the speaker showed little sign of stress. At extremely high levels (ear bleeding) I could hear some resonances but back off a bit and you were invited to incredible performance.

I went through some 20 to 30 reference tracks and every one, without exception sounded amazing! With some speakers I have to hunt to find a good sounding track or two. Not with the Elac DBR-62.

Note that the only EQ I used was for the 200 bass mode in my room. There is enough bass out of this speaker to energize that mode so be sure to have some means of EQ for your bass frequencies. Above that, none is needed but you are welcome to try some to taste (broad, low-Q EQ).

Conclusions
The ELAC DBR-62 objectively and subjectively meets and exceeds my expectations. It is "Andrew Jones" as I expected but had been missing up to now. It is "high-end" sound on a budget with little to apologize for. I was sad to stop listening to it to type this review! It is that good.

Message to Andrew: please stop messing with coaxial drivers and such. Optimized 2-way system like this outperforms them all. They design won't sound sexy on paper but boy does it sound good in person. And no fussiness with placement in room either.

So save up if you have to but don't settle for anything less than this. I am happy to give my strongest recommendation for ELAC DBR-62.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Two things make me happy: audio products that are well engineered and money. Today I got my dose of the former so no donation is necessary. But if you feel like it, you can do so using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Hey,

I found your forum when I was researching speakers. The depth of information here is incredible.

I'm an audio noob. I'm currently looking to put together a simple stereo set at home. My shortlisted options were the elac debut 2.0b6.2 or the q acoustics 3020i paired with the audiolab 6000a. Yesterday I can across these speakers. So just want to know if the dbr62 would be a better choice over my earlier shortlist.? Also would they pair well with the audiolab amp?

And most importantly are they simple enough to set up to get the best performance out of them?

Do note I'm a noob. So don't understand EQ adjustments as yet.

Thank you.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I spent some time with the UB5, and found the upper midrange-loower treble murky and closed in. The reason is easy to see from this On-Axis Praxis plot I made. The response above the bulge is pretty choppy as well. (You can ignore the peaks and dips below 250 Hz--Praxis transitions to a room measurement at that point, and you're seeing room modes and floor bounce cancellation.) The Canadian NRC measured the tower version (Same mid and tweet,3 woofers) in their anechoic chamber, and their measurements are very similar to mine, with the exception that there are apparently some added problems around 500 Hz, perhaps due to interference effects from the stack of 3 woofers.
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

 

[amirm]

Hey,

I found your forum when I was researching speakers. The depth of information here is incredible.

I'm an audio noob. I'm currently looking to put together a simple stereo set at home. My shortlisted options were the elac debut 2.0b6.2 or the q acoustics 3020i paired with the audiolab 6000a. Yesterday I can across these speakers. So just want to know if the dbr62 would be a better choice over my earlier shortlist.?

Welcome to the forum. I have not measured the other speakers you mention. If you are in a hurry, I say buy the DBR62 as it doesn't get a whole lot better than this in this form factor.

 

[wje]

I spent some time with the UB5, and found the upper midrange-loower treble murky and closed in. The reason is easy to see from this On-Axis Praxis plot I made. The response above the bulge is pretty choppy as well. (You can ignore the peaks and dips below 250 Hz--Praxis transitions to a room measurement at that point, and you're seeing room modes and floor bounce cancellation.) The Canadian NRC measured the tower version (Same mid and tweet,3 woofers) in their anechoic chamber, and their measurements are very similar to mine, with the exception that there are apparently some added problems around 500 Hz, perhaps due to interference effects from the stack of 3 woofers....

Do you happen to be "the" Dennis Murphy that has brought many of us in the audio world many great creations and modifications for crossovers and speakers? If so, welcome to the forum.

 

[renaudrenaud]

My girlfriend doesn't fully understand this hobby. I'll switch a few pieces of gear in and out during the week. She likes a lot of my choices, but certainly hasn't invested 40 years into this hobby like I have. However, there was one combo that we really agreed on - that wasn't worth the money. It happened to be the McIntosh MA-5200 integrated amplifier paired with the Focal 1008BE speakers. The Focals were great, but the Mc just didn't give us too much of a thrill with the music. In fact, that same afternoon, I put back in the Cambridge CXA80 integrated amplifier - and the music bloomed once again. Just a good British sound that had a better presence. To our ears, it was an eye opener on how the CXA80 (at about $500 used) could musically sound better than the McIntosh MA-5200, which was about $3,500, used. Again, just our impressions because I know plenty of people like Mc gear.

With that being said, I received the shipping notice on the Elac Debut Reference speakers from Audio Advisor. They shipped out today and should arrive on Saturday via FedEx. My girlfriend might leave me when she sees another pair of speakers arrive at the condo along with the Emotiva XSP-1 preamplifier that's also arriving the same day.

I've discussed with my wife about the measurements and Amir's comments. She told me "Why are you waiting, just order immediately if you're interested and you will resell if you don't like them".
It's possible to order but impossible to be delivered. I've to wait few weeks... And maybe have to hide this website to my wife.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Do you happen to be "the" Dennis Murphy that has brought many of us in the audio world many great creations and modifications for crossovers and speakers? If so, welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the welcome and for the kind words. As a speaker designer without the resources to purchase a Klippel system for myself, I couldn't be happier that Amir is sharing his measurement capability with us. I'm a firm believer in measurements, although I don't think we're to the point where we can put superior performance on the Spinorama protocol as a necessary or sufficient condition for accurate sound. But thanks to Amir, I think we all will learn a great deal more about which aspects of speaker performance correlate most closely with our listening experiences.

 

[daftcombo]

At extremely high levels (ear bleeding) I could hear some resonances but back off a bit and you were invited to incredible performance.

Hi Amir,
So the resonances shown on the graphs were not audible? What is the point of them then? ;-)

 

[stanibu]

@amirm hi, thanks for the review. Do You think you will be able to test the DFR-52?

 

[wje]

Thanks for the welcome and for the kind words. As a speaker designer without the resources to purchase a Klippel system for myself, I couldn't be happier that Amir is sharing his measurement capability with us. I'm a firm believer in measurements, although I don't think we're to the point where we can put superior performance on the Spinorama protocol as a necessary or sufficient condition for accurate sound. But thanks to Amir, I think we all will learn a great deal more about which aspects of speaker performance correlate most closely with our listening experiences.

All great comments, Dennis. I had heard you were in the Salk area of the Capital Audiofest this past fall. I did make it to many of the vendor suites, though. I had a lot of joy on that day. Maybe, will catch up with you at the next event. Meanwhile, keep up the great work!

 

[tuga]

Hey,

I found your forum when I was researching speakers. The depth of information here is incredible.

I'm an audio noob. I'm currently looking to put together a simple stereo set at home. My shortlisted options were the elac debut 2.0b6.2 or the q acoustics 3020i paired with the audiolab 6000a. Yesterday I can across these speakers. So just want to know if the dbr62 would be a better choice over my earlier shortlist.? Also would they pair well with the audiolab amp?

And most importantly are they simple enough to set up to get the best performance out of them?

Do note I'm a noob. So don't understand EQ adjustments as yet.

Thank you.

Use the site information for shortlisting then wait for the Covid19 lockdown to pass and go out and listen. Alternatively order a pair and return if you don't like them.
Judging from the measurements of the 3050i the Qs are worth a listen.

 

[tuga]

Hi Amir,
So the resonances shown on the graphs were not audible? What is the point of them then? ;-)

Are you bothered by them? I find it's valuable information and see no reason not to publish the CSD.

 

[wje]

Use the site information for shortlisting then wait for the Covid19 lockdown to pass and go out and listen. Alternatively order a pair and return if you don't like them.
Judging from the measurements of the 3050i the Qs are worth a listen.

Good point. At this stage with the lockdown, one might have to locate the speakers directly from a vendor. At the moment, Crutchfield appears to be out of stock and when checking Amazon, they reflect a delivery date of mid-April. That is why I went vendor direct in making my purchase. Also, there's a guy selling them on Audiogon, which might be an alternative too. But, one might forfeit their return option in using that route.