Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[MZKM]

Thanks for the welcome and for the kind words. As a speaker designer without the resources to purchase a Klippel system for myself, I couldn't be happier that Amir is sharing his measurement capability with us. I'm a firm believer in measurements, although I don't think we're to the point where we can put superior performance on the Spinorama protocol as a necessary or sufficient condition for accurate sound. But thanks to Amir, I think we all will learn a great deal more about which aspects of speaker performance correlate most closely with our listening experiences.

Hope you have made a full recovery!

 

[KxDx]

They are discontinued so not sure how much value there is in in measuring them. They are Revel M20:

Aaaaaaaah! You're making me want to buy the F30's back from my friend! Don't taunt me.

 

[Biblob]

@amirm how do you compare the sound of the Revel M16 compared to the Elac? And what at lower and higher volume?

 

[Shazb0t]

I spent some time with the UB5, and found the upper midrange-loower treble murky and closed in. The reason is easy to see from this On-Axis Praxis plot I made. The response above the bulge is pretty choppy as well. (You can ignore the peaks and dips below 250 Hz--Praxis transitions to a room measurement at that point, and you're seeing room modes and floor bounce cancellation.) The Canadian NRC measured the tower version (Same mid and tweet,3 woofers) in their anechoic chamber, and their measurements are very similar to mine, with the exception that there are apparently some added problems around 500 Hz, perhaps due to interference effects from the stack of 3 woofers.
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153




View attachment 55871

I'd love to see a Klippel spinorama for the UB5. Hopefully someone has sent @amirm one for measurement!

 

[ROOSKIE]

I spent some time with the UB5, and found the upper midrange-loower treble murky and closed in. The reason is easy to see from this On-Axis Praxis plot I made. The response above the bulge is pretty choppy as well. (You can ignore the peaks and dips below 250 Hz--Praxis transitions to a room measurement at that point, and you're seeing room modes and floor bounce cancellation.) The Canadian NRC measured the tower version (Same mid and tweet,3 woofers) in their anechoic chamber, and their measurements are very similar to mine, with the exception that there are apparently some added problems around 500 Hz, perhaps due to interference effects from the stack of 3 woofers.
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153




View attachment 55871

Howdy! You designed some really nice gear including the Philharmonic BMR and affordable accuracy sets. Awesome!

 

[pongopygmy]

Use the site information for shortlisting then wait for the Covid19 lockdown to pass and go out and listen. Alternatively order a pair and return if you don't like them.
Judging from the measurements of the 3050i the Qs are worth a listen.

Thanks. Will wait to give.them all a listen like you recommend.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

My understanding is that that is due to the baffle diffraction. Maybe I am wrong here though. (the bump)

It's true that many woofers have bumps at or a little under 1 kHz. (This is distinct from the baffle step, which affects all woofers in a cabinet and can usually be easily compensated for by the crossover). The culprit is resonant modes at the point where the cone meets the surround. Modest bumps (or dips) aren't worth fixing, but larger ones are, and it usually requires a 3-component trap circuit. Premium priced drivers can be just as prone to this problem as cheapies. I recently got a distress call from Jim Salk who had just measured one of his flagship SS9.5 towers and found a very prominent peak at 900 Hz coming from the uber-expensive AT (Skanning) midwoofers. AT apparently had changed the surround or sourced materials from a different supplier, and the dreaded midrange bump had reared its head. I had to completely redo the crossover to get things back to normal.

 

[amirm]

Hi Amir,
So the resonances shown on the graphs were not audible? What is the point of them then? ;-)

Well, it is hard to isolate the effect of some resonance unless you can have a unit without one, and one with. Since speakers vary a lot more than that, it is hard to get there. As I test more speakers I may land on accurate ones without such resonances and maybe we get some insight that way.

For now, the resonances are very narrow so you have to get lucky for a note to hit them and stay there long enough to perceive them.

 

[amirm]

@amirm hi, thanks for the review. Do You think you will be able to test the DFR-52?

It is not offered for testing yet.

 

[xykreinov]

Wow, these are excellent for 600 a pair.

I wonder how these would do near field.

I second this.

 

[amirm]

@amirm how do you compare the sound of the Revel M16 compared to the Elac? And what at lower and higher volume?

I need to go back and compare.

 

[Biblob]

I need to go back and compare.

Alright, this would be a nice comparison

 

[amirm]

Alright, this would be a nice comparison

It is hard without an AB switch. I will need to build this at some point but no time so far....

 

[amirm]

Someone out there please donate an AB switch to this man!

If you mean a speaker switch, that won't work. These are inductive loads and with my high power amplifier, bad things can happen with such switches.

What I meant with AB is some kind of speaker shuffler. Alternatively an upstream AB switch so I can compare left to right. I have some ideas on this front but the challenge is to not destroy my everyday 2-channel listening system in the process....

 

[Spocko]

If you mean a speaker switch, that won't work. These are inductive loads and with my high power amplifier, bad things can happen with such switches.

What I meant with AB is some kind of speaker shuffler. Alternatively an upstream AB switch so I can compare left to right. I have some ideas on this front but the challenge is to not destroy my everyday 2-channel listening system in the process....

Something like the Van Alstine ABX Switch Comparator? https://avahifi.com/products/abx-switch-comparator

 

[Doodski]

Something like the Van Alstine ABX Switch Comparator? https://avahifi.com/products/abx-switch-comparator

Something with level matching controls would be great.

 

[tuga]

Well, it is hard to isolate the effect of some resonance unless you can have a unit without one, and one with. Since speakers vary a lot more than that, it is hard to get there. As I test more speakers I may land on accurate ones without such resonances and maybe we get some insight that way.

For now, the resonances are very narrow so you have to get lucky for a note to hit them and stay there long enough to perceive them.

You could try the Estato - Presto from Vivaldi's Le Quattro Stagione.

 

[Spocko]

Something with level matching controls would be great.

Yep, can be level matched to within 0.1 db

 

[amirm]

Something like the Van Alstine ABX Switch Comparator? https://avahifi.com/products/abx-switch-comparator

Yeh, I have looked at that a few times. I wrote to them twice but they just ignored me so on that basis, I have not bought it.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Yeh, I have looked at that a few times. I wrote to them twice but they just ignored me so on that basis, I have not bought it.

Wow I've never known Frank to ignore a potential customer. I would try again. I've used it at shows and it's state of the art. Plus, you can compare anything--turntables, amps, preamps, California Cabernet.....a volume-compensated switching preamp is a must for speaker design and fully informed reviews. I have a custom unit designed by a local EE, but I would have saved my pennies for the Van Alstine otherwise.