Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[renaudrenaud]

Or E30: there is a remote!

 

[Livnmuskoka]

I see. So something like the wxa-50 wouldn't quite cut it correct? It costs about the same as the a-s501 but I get streaming features with it, albeit less power, around 75W at 6ohms according to leave vs the 100w of the a-s501

Depends on how big your room is, how close you sit to the speakers and how loud you want to listen. In a smaller room or not very loud listening the wxa-50 would be fine.

 

[maniolo]

Hello everyone, like most of you, I purchased these speakers after reading this article. In fact, I have had Elipson Planet L on their feet for two years. Due to their lack of bass and the fact that I cannot put a woofer in my living room, I was looking for bookshelf speakers with more bass.
I just made a first listen, I am a little disappointed for the moment because I found the mids and the highs a little garish, unlike the planets much softer.
On the other hand, the sound is more open, the sconore scene is larger but I find that hearing fatigue happens faster than my other speakers.

 

[Stefano_Milano]

Hello everyone, like most of you, I purchased these speakers after reading this article. In fact, I have had Elipson Planet L on their feet for two years. Due to their lack of bass and the fact that I cannot put a woofer in my living room, I was looking for bookshelf speakers with more bass.
I just made a first listen, I am a little disappointed for the moment because I found the mids and the highs a little garish, unlike the planets much softer.
On the other hand, the sound is more open, the sconore scene is larger but I find that hearing fatigue happens faster than my other speakers.

At first I was also disappointed with Elac Reference. Then I bought an UMIK microphone and checked with REW the response of the speakers in my room. I had peaks of some low frequencies.
I corrected them and now the speakers are perfect for my ears.

 

[Coke101]

Hello everyone, like most of you, I purchased these speakers after reading this article. In fact, I have had Elipson Planet L on their feet for two years. Due to their lack of bass and the fact that I cannot put a woofer in my living room, I was looking for bookshelf speakers with more bass.
I just made a first listen, I am a little disappointed for the moment because I found the mids and the highs a little garish, unlike the planets much softer.
On the other hand, the sound is more open, the sconore scene is larger but I find that hearing fatigue happens faster than my other speakers.

What are you powering them with? it sounds like there underpowered, I noticed they come alive with more power

 

[maniolo]

That's what I said to myself, I stopped playing the hifi because of the kids for a few years, I'm starting to make a new system for myself. I bought a SHD minidsp two weeks ago. For the amp, I will soon buy one made from purifi.
So I have a small "Full Digital amplifier", which processes the digital signal from end to end, without DAC. This is the QLS QA100. It develops 100w into 4 ohms. I love the sound it makes, I compared it to 2/3000 euros amps, it was doing great . But it may be a bit light for these Elac ...

 

[Coke101]

That's what I said to myself, I stopped playing the hifi because of the kids for a few years, I'm starting to make a new system for myself. I bought a SHD minidsp two weeks ago. For the amp, I will soon buy one made from purifi.
So I have a small "Full Digital amplifier", which processes the digital signal from end to end, without DAC. This is the QLS QA100. It develops 100w into 4 ohms. I love the sound it makes, I compared it to 2/3000 euros amps, it was doing great . But it may be a bit light for these Elac ...

If you want any bass out of them give them as much clean power as you can! I’m feeding them 125w@8Ω off a keces s125 and the bass and sound is awesome

 

[MrPeabody]

If you want any bass out of them give them as much clean power as you can! I’m feeding them 125w@8Ω off a keces s125 and the bass and sound is awesome

A speaker only uses as much power as it uses. If the amplifier is able to supply more power than the speaker is using, this does not affect the sound, because that extra power is power that the speaker isn't using.

 

[Coke101]

A speaker only uses as much power as it uses. If the amplifier is able to supply more power than the speaker is using, this does not affect the sound, because that extra power is power that the speaker isn't using.

Your telling me a 100w peak power amplifier will sound the same as a 200w rms amplifier on the same speakers at the same volume ? The dynamic response of amplifier will have a huge impact on the sound

 

[theyellowspecial]

Your telling me a 100w peak power amplifier will sound the same as a 200w rms amplifier on the same speakers at the same volume ? The dynamic response of amplifier will have a huge impact on the sound

If peaks of music within 100W why not? Assuming all else being equal (noise, etc.).

 

[JSHamlet234]

Your telling me a 100w peak power amplifier will sound the same as a 200w rms amplifier on the same speakers at the same volume ? The dynamic response of amplifier will have a huge impact on the sound

It depends on the application. Very large room, distant listening position, low-sensitivity speakers, reference-level volume, very dynamic material - the 200W should sound less terrible than the 100W (but probably still terrible). However, for near field listening it wouldn't matter at all. For something in between, you would need to actually measure several things to determine whether or not the extra 3dB of headroom makes a difference.

 

[MrPeabody]

Your telling me a 100w peak power amplifier will sound the same as a 200w rms amplifier on the same speakers at the same volume ? The dynamic response of amplifier will have a huge impact on the sound

I'm not at all certain what you mean by "dynamic response", because except for DC, it's all dynamic. The particular and noteworthy circumstance where the 200 Watt amplifier would sound better than the 100 Watt amplifier is when the 100 Watt amplifier is clipping and the 200 Watt amplifier isn't clipping. I.e., when signal voltage (with consideration of voltage gain) exceeds the DC supply rails of the weaker amplifier but not the more power amplifier. You seem to be saying, as best as I can determine, that this is something that occurs routinely with all amplifiers all the time, and to a lesser extent with amplifiers that are more powerful. I see no reason to anticipate that this something that would occur routinely with the 100 Watt amplifier, and I question why anyone would think that it would.

When clipping occurs and is severe enough for you to hear it, you will then hear it, but the difference you will hear will not be a difference in the amount of bass. That's one important point. Another important point is that when one amplifier is twice as powerful as another, the difference expressed in decibels is just 3 dB, which really isn't a whole lot. In terms of perception, at the different signal levels where the two amplifiers each begin to clip, the more powerful one will sound just a tad louder than the less powerful one. Not to suggest that the likelihood of one clipping and the other not clipping is a low likelihood. Only that if it happens, there won't be a huge difference in the perception of volume between the two.

That all said, it is by all means possible that an amplifier could be designed where the strategy for dealing with overload (i.e., when the amplifier starts to clip or becomes too hot) would be to apply a shallow high-pass filter to decrease the bass. This probably would reduce the clipping, since the peaks are generally high-frequency and superimposed on the low frequencies. But you could just as easily reduce the clipping by applying a shallow low-pass filter, to reduce the high-frequency peaks. Would either strategy make more sense than the other? I think probably not, but honestly I'm not 100% sure. In spite of my uncertainty about this, it makes more sense to me to uniformly attenuate the high-frequency peaks and the underlying bass, which is to say, attenuate the signal in the most linear manner possible, by reducing the amplifier's gain. If I were designing an amplifier and wanted to show how smart I am, I would use a digital processor to control the gain, such that when the signal peaks get precariously close to the supply rails, the gain is lowered. This would be quick in responding to the onset of clipping, but much slower in adjusting the gain back the other direction. I honestly have no idea whether there are any amplifiers that do something similar to this. If there is an amplifier that does something like this, what you would likely notice is that for both loud passages and quiet passages, the loudest sound you can get from the amplifier is the same. In other words, instead of clipping on loud passages, the amplifier smartly turns itself down. Seems like an obvious thing to me. Do any real amplifiers work like this? I don't know.

 

[Livnmuskoka]

Hello everyone, like most of you, I purchased these speakers after reading this article. In fact, I have had Elipson Planet L on their feet for two years. Due to their lack of bass and the fact that I cannot put a woofer in my living room, I was looking for bookshelf speakers with more bass.
I just made a first listen, I am a little disappointed for the moment because I found the mids and the highs a little garish, unlike the planets much softer.
On the other hand, the sound is more open, the sconore scene is larger but I find that hearing fatigue happens faster than my other speakers.

The Reference's are designed to be pretty neutral, if they seem bright it's most likely the room, speaker position, or other gear.
I currently have a harsh room even with cloth blinds, an area rug, couch and 2 chairs, and with the speakers not toed in. My ears are also sensitive to high pitches. The Reference's are just at the edge of being too bright in my room with the treble at 0.
For comparison I had my Paradigm Prestige 15B's treble at -7 in this room, but sounded great at 0 in previous better rooms.
Try adding a few more soft furnishings and having the speakers point straight ahead if you don't already.

 

[MrPeabody]

It depends on the application. Very large room, distant listening position, low-sensitivity speakers, reference-level volume, very dynamic material - the 200W should sound less terrible than the 100W (but probably still terrible). However, for near field listening it wouldn't matter at all. For something in between, you would need to actually measure several things to determine whether or not the extra 3dB of headroom makes a difference.

That's the answer to a question that is related to the question that Coke101 implicitly raised. Because the question was not worded in a particularly express way, it is to be expected that different people will read into it differently, and come up with different questions to answer. If you read what he wrote and think about what it really means, what he's saying is that at matched volume, the two amplifiers will sound different by mere virtue of the fact that one is capable of delivering more power than the other. Of course when the weaker amp is clipping this will be true. Thus, in order for what he said to be an accurate portrayal of reality, it would need to be true that all amplifiers routinely clip the signal to various degrees, and that as such, more power amplifiers generally sound superior to less powerful amplifiers. I don't think this is a correct understanding. I don't think it is correct to think that the weaker amplifier will be clipping routinely, and if this were what he were thinking, he would most likely have said this in a more direct way. He was thinking something else, but I don't really know what.

 

[Benedium]

Sigh... Audioscience needs a Carl Sagan LOL.

 

[weasels]

Why would a 200wpc amp putting out 50 watts sound any different than a 100wpc putting out 50 watts, regardless of the size or treatment of the room?

That doesn't make any sense, all other things being equal.

 

[maniolo]

I didn't think I would launch this debate, but it's still interesting to read. I have no bass problem, on the contrary !! They are present and deep.
The speakers being under 6 ohm, my amplifier is announced, 100w for 4 ohms and 60 for 8 ohms, I deduce that it delivers 80w for 6 ohms?

I will be listening again tomorrow, over the hours I started to appreciate the mediums better. We'll see tomorrow for the treble. The Planet L are really very neutral and very transparent, on the other hand their design makes the bass absent. The soundstage is also less dense.

For this first test, I used one of my favorite recording, album Arcoluz Renaud Garcia Fons, the double bass player, has a sixth string on his double bass. When he walks with his arch, if the speaker is not good, it can make the ears bleed

Can we say that the speakers, just out of the box, need a little "break-in" to relax the membranes?

 

[Chromatischism]

The Reference's are designed to be pretty neutral, if they seem bright it's most likely the room, speaker position, or other gear.
I currently have a harsh room even with cloth blinds, an area rug, couch and 2 chairs, and with the speakers not toed in. My ears are also sensitive to high pitches. The Reference's are just at the edge of being too bright in my room with the treble at 0.
For comparison I had my Paradigm Prestige 15B's treble at -7 in this room, but sounded great at 0 in previous better rooms.
Try adding a few more soft furnishings and having the speakers point straight ahead if you don't already.

I agree it has to be the placement/room. I have never seen a review say they sound garish or bright. If anything they may be boring to some (my use of Dynamic EQ fixes that for all speakers when listening at lower levels).

 

[981CS]

A speaker only uses as much power as it uses. If the amplifier is able to supply more power than the speaker is using, this does not affect the sound, because that extra power is power that the speaker isn't using.

In theory, maybe. But I have noticed a distinct sound difference in certain speakers when you feed them more power or hook them to an amp that just has more grunt. They sound "more alive" and dynamic than what they do with less WPC.

For example, the original Elac UNi-Fi's are still loud with lower power amps, but they just sound flat and dull. Give them more power with a good 4ohm amp and they completely transform. I'm sure there's a point where X watts will sound the same as X+n watts, but every speaker is going to differ in that and some may and will respond better to a higher power amp.

And given AJ's previous designs, his speakers typically like more power.

 

[981CS]

Can we say that the speakers, just out of the box, need a little "break-in" to relax the membranes?

Normally yes. On this forum, who knows.