Dynaudio LYD 5 Studio Monitor Review

[tktran303]

I think you misunderstood my comment.

I wasn't referring to the LYD series.

I was saying that, back in the old days, >20 years ago, one of the reasons some designers preferred 1st order crossovers was the claim that it gave better phase coherence.

My old Audience 42 had a 1st order electrical network.

On the woofer leg right? But not on the tweeter leg.

Anyway, Like you said. what matters is the acoustic response on each driver...

 

[watchnerd]

On the woofer leg right? But not on the tweeter leg.

Anyway, Like you said. what matters is the acoustic response on each driver...

It's been a long time since I pulled them apart, but I do remember the tweeter leg was not as simple as the woofer. I don't remember how much of it was other kind of corrections and padding vs steeper slope.

 

[KaiserSoze]

Hahaha... Mathematicians have the unique talent of transforming properties that have nice physical meanings into something else that are completely abstract.

Let's see if I can explain it here: Another defining characteristic of farfield is that the source will look like a point source [see note below]. When the source is a point source, many nice properties follow -- sound pressure level attenuates by 6 dB every doubling of distance, the sound waves behave like a plane wave (in the spherical sense), pressure and velocity are in phase, etc. Of course, when the source behaves like a point source, that also means all the disparate sources are integrated into one.

Thus, if we can use apparent sound power curves to determine where far field begins, all the other characteristics of far field (which include integration of the drivers) will apply.

[Edit:] Note: Before someone asks, the point source is not a generic point source, but a special one that has the exact same sound radiating directivity characteristics as the loudspeaker. If anyone still finds it difficult to conceptualize, then imagine it as a spherical source instead of a point source, but a very very small one.

That was very well worded, and useful. Although, if you were to suggest that given this explanation that the esoteric math should be perfectly clear in meaning and in derivation ...

I especially like your second paragraph, which says that by taking power measurements and by applying some very esoteric math, the computational algorithms are able to calculate the distance needed in order that these several properties of the sound wave, which are reasonably well understood, will apply.

 

[KaiserSoze]

Hope not to sound harsh but where is that phase benefit coming from i cant see it other than in a electric domain or for coxials, because of center to center distance plus the huge >10 decade XO region and always around 90º out of phase its a mess of new step responses for every few milimeter microphone is moved around, also because woofer cant keep that wide slope off axis and main lope in XO region tilt down for WT configuration and up for TW configuration and probably reason why famous Dunlavy made his speakers as WTW or WMTMW, agree subjetive 1st order acoustics can sound fantastic or heaven for some its just myself that cant live with the objective step responses because that signature is not inherent and coming from the track material.

Regarding LYD 5 sorry to say i dont think it use any 1st order slopes because vertical radar in XO region should then tilt downwards and as seen below lobe is pointing strait forward at 4695Hz, use of 4695Hz is because CAD software bench LYD 5 slope to be in area 4500Hz-4800Hz..

View attachment 82862

Another one its not 1st order slope in LYD 5 is analyze Amir's nearfield sweeps, to be more right or a real model they should be corected for a baffle loss/diffraction curve but i'm too lazy do that now, nearfield is not precise method over a certain frequency relative to piston diameter and distance to microhone but very precise in the low end so ignore low pass slope of woofer and tweeter in they not presenting real world because of physics, did find two slopes that overlay quite nicely with tweeter in animation below and they both of 4th order..

View attachment 82864

I had haphazardly mentioned the possibility of 1st-order crossover for a couple of reasons that weren't particularly good reasons. One of the reasons was the amount of spreading over frequency of the cancellation between the two drivers in the crossover vicinity, as indicated in Amir's Vertical Directivity Graph. But this is not anywhere near a good enough reason for more than foolish speculation. It did however seem to have some consistency with the high choice of crossover frequency in that the large overlap would mean that the tweeter's dispersion below the crossover point would compensate for the woofer's high directivity at wavelengths shorter than the diameter of the woofer, in the octaves immediately below the crossover frequency. But this of course is not any reason at all to draw any conclusion about the crossover. I did not follow all of what you wrote because, I suspect, there may be some language translation taking place in some of it. Amir's graph of "Driver Components Nearfield" should be reasonably accurate for the tweeter above the frequency where the woofer ceases to have any strong effect on the tweeter measurement, but I would not hazard a guess as to the exact frequency where this would occur. Furthermore, unless I am mistaken, you are comparing his acoustic measurement with two theoretical 4th-order acoustic slopes, which wouldn't reveal much about the crossovers themselves without also having the unfiltered response of the tweeter. Of course there was no suggestion that the acoustic slopes would be 1st-order slopes. Final thought is that, from what little I ever understand about earlier Dynaudio practices, when they used low-order crossovers they also used ladder networks to time-align the drivers so as to able to mount the tweeter flush on a baffle with no need to tilt the baffle back, thus the main lobe in the vertical plane would not have been downward-sloping.

 

[Xyrium]

I'm watching this thread with great enthusiasm. I hope the captain can retest using the adjusted LF setting. I would love to see the LF thd and extension. At that point, in addition. To see what happens to that dip in the mids and mild beaming.

 

[KaiserSoze]

This video is a couple of years old, but unless Dynaudio's basic philosophy about crossovers has changed dramatically in the last couple of years, they still seem to prefer low-order crossovers.

https://www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-academy/2018/may/ask-the-expert-what-is-a-passive-crossover

 

[thebabyparrot]

The Panther doesn't match the score. What gives?

 

[Wolven]

How much of a hiss do those speakers have? Some people have reported lots.
Speaking of hiss, do all power speakers have it?
Do AB's have less hiss than D's?

 

[VeerK]

Dynaudio makes all their woofers in house -- for them to use a Skaaning would be a break from their usual vertical integration practice.

This would seem to explain.

 

[watchnerd]

How much of a hiss do those speakers have? Some people have reported lots.
Speaking of hiss, do all power speakers have it?
Do AB's have less hiss than D's?

I find the hiss to vary a lot depending upon the gain staging between your output and the selected input on the back of the speaker amp.

If I put..

RME ADI-2 Pro Out = +4 dBU

LYD 5 Input: -6 dB

.....i don't hear any hiss unless (with no music playing) I crank the volume extremely.

 

[amirm]

I'm watching this thread with great enthusiasm. I hope the captain can retest using the adjusted LF setting.

Test? If you mean remeasurement, I can't do that. That takes way too long. I can listen to it that way though.

 

[amirm]

How much of a hiss do those speakers have? Some people have reported lots.

As I noted in the review, I had to put my ear very close to it to hear it. So it is there but not very loud in my setup.

 

[Wolven]

As I noted in the review, I had to put my ear very close to it to hear it. So it is there but not very loud in my setup.

I must have missed it somehow, oops. I'm thinking of upgrading my computer setup, currently running powered Paradigm Shift A2's speakers, and I'm thinking something along the lines of Dyno's LYD 7 or Focal Shape 65 or Twin. Not sure if it would be much of an improvement. Also, I just listen to music and don't record, so, I'm not sure, if near field monitors are the way to go. I will not add a sub, thus speakers with good low extension are a necessity.

 

[Wolven]

I find the hiss to vary a lot depending upon the gain staging between your output and the selected input on the back of the speaker amp.

If I put..

RME ADI-2 Pro Out = +4 dBU

LYD 5 Input: -6 dB

.....i don't hear any hiss unless (with no music playing) I crank the volume extremely.

Thanks for the information, greatly appreciated. I never crank up the volume, mostly listening at low volume. My current speakers have some hiss, at 3 feet I can hear them a little if the room is quiet, once music starts it goes away.

 

[KaiserSoze]

Thanks for the information, greatly appreciated. I never crank up the volume, mostly listening at low volume. My current speakers have some hiss, at 3 feet I can hear them a little if the room is quiet, once music starts it goes away.

I think we need a name for this hiss. I propose "Anal Hiss". If you have to get up real close to the speaker to hear it when there isn't any music playing, you aren't going to hear it all when either (a.) you listen real close and are playing music, or (b.) you step back a few feet and listen without any music playing. How could it possibly matter?

 

[wwenze]

The Panther doesn't match the score. What gives?

Probably the bass

Not enough wub wub

Honestly if I pay US$1k I would expect some wub wub. I get that we need realistic expectations, but having less bass extension than 305P and KH80 does not bode well.

 

[Wolven]

I think we need a name for this hiss. I propose "Anal Hiss". If you have to get up real close to the speaker to hear it when there isn't any music playing, you aren't going to hear it all when either (a.) you listen real close and are playing music, or (b.) you step back a few feet and listen without any music playing. How could it possibly matter?

Simple, those are desktop speakers. If, I'm 10 feet away and can't hear them, it is not a problem. However, if I'm always next to them since they are on the computer desk, then yeah it is a problem.

BTW. Those are near field monitors:
Listening Distance
The LYD 5,7 & 8 speakers are designed as near field monitors. Near field monitors should be placed relatively close to the listener, between 1 and 2 meters.

 

[Maiky76]

Hi,

Here is my take on the EQ.
Not much to be gained
Score no EQ: 5.68

Flat LW:
Score 6.02
Type     Freq        Gain     Q
PEQ      120.0,    -1.60,   1.65,...
PEQ      241.0,     0.93,   2.11,...
PEQ      385.0,     1.10,   2.00,...
PEQ      536.0,    -0.72,   3.45,...
PEQ      955.0,    -0.80,   2.85,...
PEQ     4106.0,    -0.97,   2.84,...
PEQ     5313.0,     0.68,   4.83,...

General EQ
score 6.15
Type    Freq      Gain       Q
       119.0,    -1.60,   1.60,...
       246.0,     0.94,   2.00,...
       382.0,     1.02,   1.80,...
       539.0,    -0.75,   3.56,...
       847.0,    -0.53,   4.10,...
      4107.0,    -0.97,   2.84,...
      4988.0,     0.68,   3.83,...

Spinorama with Flat LW:

General EQ

Regression

Zoom PIR-ON-LW
The bump at 4000Hz seems to be on purpose when looking at the PIR and individual drivers responses.

Now since @amirm won't be able to rerun the measurements for the "-10Hz" setting, I tried to simulate the effect by adding a low-shelf filter ( 79.0Hz +3/2.00dB, 1.00) by looking at the Dynaudio own curves.

With Zoom on the PIR-ON-LW without other EQ + 2dB

The new spinorama with a slightly improved score: 5.83 with +2dB and 5.87 with +3dB (from 5.67) I only get about 5Hz improvement at LF though.

With the same General EQ applied the score is now 6.28 with +2dB and 6.31 with +3dB

In terms of vertical directivity you really need to look at the speaker right in the eyes...
The LW is not particularly consistent IMO.

All-in (EQ + 3dB LF low-shelf) radar plot vs no EQ:

The rest of the data is attached.

 

[Xyrium]

Test? If you mean remeasurement, I can't do that. That takes way too long. I can listen to it that way though.

I figured that might be the case. No worries!

 

[hardisj]

Child’s play:

heh... you should see those with a missile in there.

I have.