Dutch & Dutch Vs Persona 9H

[Manojrc]

Dear All,

My first post here. So please be kind !

I know it may be unfair to compare a speaker against 3 times it’s priced one, but since both share somewhat similar technologies at least when it comes to DSP & room acoustics correction, it’s interesting to see whether it makes sense to pay a lot to get 9H mainly for its floor stand aesthetics & fit and finish. Somehow I’m a big fan, like most of us, of floor standing speakers & I don’t really like the studio monitor look of 8C.

Btw, this comparison is purely for academic purpose, not that I could easily afford both these !

Thank you
-M

 

[napilopez]

Dear All,

My first post here. So please be kind !

I know it may be unfair to compare a speaker against 3 times it’s priced one, but since both share somewhat similar technologies at least when it comes to DSP & room acoustics correction, it’s interesting to see whether it makes sense to pay a lot to get 9H mainly for its floor stand aesthetics & fit and finish. Somehow I’m a big fan, like most of us, of floor standing speakers & I don’t really like the studio monitor look of 8C.

Btw, this comparison is purely for academic purpose, not that I could easily afford both these !

Thank you
-M

Welcome to the forum!

I'm a little confused though; are you looking for purchasing advice?

 

[Alexanderc]

Dear All,

My first post here. So please be kind !

I know it may be unfair to compare a speaker against 3 times it’s priced one, but since both share somewhat similar technologies at least when it comes to DSP & room acoustics correction, it’s interesting to see whether it makes sense to pay a lot to get 9H mainly for its floor stand aesthetics & fit and finish. Somehow I’m a big fan, like most of us, of floor standing speakers & I don’t really like the studio monitor look of 8C.

Btw, this comparison is purely for academic purpose, not that I could easily afford both these !

Thank you
-M

It seems like the 8C would be the better measuring of the two. I don’t know if the 9H has any published measurements but the smaller 3f does and it’s ok, not great. I’ve heard the personas and thought they sounded good, never heard the D&D.

 

[Chromatischism]

The Premier 800F measures relatively flat and neutral and James Larson of Audioholics says the Personas are more lively in the treble and bass.

 

[Alexanderc]

It seems like the 8C would be the better measuring of the two. I don’t know if the 9H has any published measurements but the smaller 3f does and it’s ok, not great. I’ve heard the personas and thought they sounded good, never heard the D&D.

Here’s the 3F measurement I referred to:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0mbDmbiORCk/XpOqqU_XUCI/AAAAAAAAAUY/4Ijna7AeQt0aDa6LFdBvVHZZ8eQxZSziACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Spin+-+Paradigm+Persona+3F+raw.png
More lively in the treble indeed.

 

[Manojrc]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm a little confused though; are you looking for purchasing advice?

Thank you.

As mentioned in my post, looking for any objective comparison between two, purely for academic interest.

Stereophile in their excellent review, posted few graphs which show the comparison between 8C, Mino & M2. Similar graphs definitely help here.

In my opinion, based on numerous articles I read about these, though 8C achieved what its makers wanted, few better components (at least for marketing), a nicer industrial design (for a better WAF) and options to accept various analog/digital input would make it a great choice for both music enthusiasts & gear heads alike.
At least on paper, 9H offers all these & more though at a premium price.

Would like to hear more from others...Thanks..

 

[Absolute]

I'd like a link to that Stereophile review if possible

 

[Manojrc]

I'd like a link to that Stereophile review if possible

https://www.stereophile.com/content...e-loudspeaker-system-john-atkinson-april-2020

 

[detlev24]

I'd like a link to that Stereophile review if possible

Magico M2. Not JBL.

 

[q3cpma]

When the manufacturer doesn't give hard data, adopt a suspicious position.

 

[Beave]

The Paradigm Persona B bookshelf speaker was measured in the NRC anechoic chamber, with results here:
Paradigm Persona B

The Paradigm Persona 5F tower was measured by Stereophile's John Atkinson, with results here:
Paradigm Persona 5F

 

[Geert]

Somehow I’m a big fan, like most of us, of floor standing speakers

Evidence ?

 

[Purité Audio]

I have the 8c’s which are my current favourite loudspeakers and I was interested in the 9H, travelled to hear them but decided not to take them on.
Tried their standmounts here,

Keith

 

[SomeGeoffGuy]

I heard the Persona 3's at Axpona in 2019 running off a 200 watt/channel Anthem STR. They were playing in a hotel room (as most are at the show) and it sounded like a rock concert. They had the best sounding hotel room there. It was amazing. I have those speakers on my bucket list. If they are in your range, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger.

-Geoff

 

[Purité Audio]

I would, I suppose you can reduce the treble lift, but why bother when so much better designs are available.
Keith

 

[SomeGeoffGuy]

I would, I suppose you can reduce the treble lift, but why bother when so much better designs are available.
Keith

It's more the midrange that bothers me - 1k to 2 k Hz. I have a shattered eardrum from a deer hunting incident and those are the frequencies that get me - I assume I would EQ just about any speaker, I always have. The high treble from the RF7's don't bother me, although I don't hear much above 15k Hz.

What would you recommend with 100 db efficiency that goes down to 32 Hz with for $3200 out the door?

-Geoff

 

[Purité Audio]

I would always recommend modern active designs,
Keith

 

[Putter]

It's more the midrange that bothers me - 1k to 2 k Hz. I have a shattered eardrum from a deer hunting incident and those are the frequencies that get me - I assume I would EQ just about any speaker, I always have. The high treble from the RF7's don't bother me, although I don't hear much above 15k Hz.

What would you recommend with 100 db efficiency that goes down to 32 Hz with for $3200 out the door?

-Geoff

I forget what brand, but they use drivers made of unobtanium which don't require a crossover.

Seriously I not sure there's a speaker at any price that goes that far down with high efficiency. I can't think of a speaker with 100db anechoic sensitivity. Some of the larger Klipsch Heritage series come close but have in room sensitivity measurements. It's not clear why you need such high sensitivity when you already have hearing problems.

 

[andreasmaaan]

The Persona 9H offers inbuilt bass management, and for most home listening setups will mostly avoid the primary floor bounce cancellation with its array of 3 front-facing woofers crossed at 400Hz. The four 8" woofers are likely to offer higher SPLs at lower distortion levels than the 8C's two 8" woofers.

But that's literally all I can muster to say in its favour. Hifi News ran some very basic measurements, and these suggest precisely the same problems shown in more detail in Soundstage's measurements of the Persona B.

I think an argument can be made for a slight "smiley face" tilt to the response curve, especially if the speaker is designed to be listened to at low volume or in the background, but I don't think any excuse could be made for the response anomalies I've circled below in the Persona B's measurements, and which appear to also be present in the 9H. The off-axis performance is also all a bit of a mess, and distortion performance in the midrange is mediocre given the price tag.

These speakers don't appear to be anywhere near the same class as the 8Cs, would be my 2c.

I also find the whole range pretty ghastly-looking, to be honest

UPDATE: here are some additional measurements I found of the 7F. Very low bass extension and distortion; lots of issues otherwise.

 

[Chromatischism]

What would you recommend with 100 db efficiency that goes down to 32 Hz with for $3200 out the door?

I forget what brand, but they use drivers made of unobtanium which don't require a crossover.

Seriously I not sure there's a speaker at any price that goes that far down with high efficiency. I can't think of a speaker with 100db anechoic sensitivity. Some of the larger Klipsch Heritage series come close but have in room sensitivity measurements. It's not clear why you need such high sensitivity when you already have hearing problems.

Like Putter, I can't think of anything that meets that criteria. Typically, Hoffman weighs in and makes it so that when we increase efficiency that high, we give up a lot of bass extension to get there.

You are probably looking at a 15" bass driver or two with a really big horn. Think JBL Cinema level speakers. Plus subwoofers.