Dutch & Dutch 8Cs

[frangle]

Give us a button. It could only be that: A simple, sole, volume knob, remote controlled. Please.

What is your source? Does that not have buttons / volume knob? For hifi speakers this doesn't bother me as I need to go to an interface to choose the music to play. Turning them on and off is more hassle.

I find Hue lights good because of the control options. Buy the button controller and they can work just like steam powered lights. If like with me, the other members of your household only understand how to switch lights ON, it allows you to set up mitigations.

What drives me crazy is not having preset buttons on Sonos units. I use them 99% for radio listening, two or three different stations, and having to log in to a device, start the app, suffer the umteenth controller disconnection, go past the endless update notifications and finally get to the appropriate screen just to switch station pretty much guarantees that you'll miss whatever you wanted to listen to. Of course there is the "easier" alternative of "Hey Google, play <station> in the kitchen" which often elicits a response like:

 

[FrantzM]

What is your source? Does that not have buttons / volume knob? For hifi speakers this doesn't bother me as I need to go to an interface to choose the music to play. Turning them on and off is more hassle.

I find Hue lights good because of the control options. Buy the button controller and they can work just like steam powered lights. If like with me, the other members of your household only understand how to switch lights ON, it allows you to set up mitigations.

What drives me crazy is not having preset buttons on Sonos units. I use them 99% for radio listening, two or three different stations, and having to log in to a device, start the app, suffer the umteenth controller disconnection, go past the endless update notifications and finally get to the appropriate screen just to switch station pretty much guarantees that you'll miss whatever you wanted to listen to. Of course there is the "easier" alternative of "Hey Google, play <station> in the kitchen" which often elicits a response like:

I recently bought some Hue physical switches and they work well. At first, a Hue user could have been tempted to think that a switch would no longer be required, in fact Philips did think so, the physical switches came after, they were not part of the original offerings, I believe the Hue lights were launched in October 2012, the switches came almost 6 years later ... !!! . The point that I may have failed to make, is the necessity of tactile, physical, even dedicated controls, something the 8C lacks. Keep in mind they are not just hi-fi speakers, they are in fact a music system.
Using smartphone/tablets as in interface is nice and many a design department think those can replace physical buttons... They can't. Smartphones have not managed to replace physical remote controls.
I use and find voice control convenient . Listening to music and shouting at some device however, to lower or raise the volume, is not my (or anybody) idea of ergonomics. At this point in time nothing has replaced, the simplicity of a rotary volume control...

 

[frangle]

On the 8Cs understood, but I'm not sure that you want to be doing all the volume adjustment there at the moment. IIRC for good SNR you need to keep the internal gain control set quite high. For normal listening I have mine set at -12dB with the aim of the upstream software volume being near its maximum. On the rare occasions I want to listen loud, I take it up to 0..6dB. So most of the volume adjustment is done upstream (for me in MoOde). Of course this may change when D&D release internal streaming support.

I'm ambivalent about using smartphones for control because I (probably like you) am used to the 99.9% reliability and immediate access of physical remote controls. However, these can't browse a music collection to select what to play, so you end up having to pick up the phone anyway, unless you still spin discs. Properly implemented control apps like BubbleUPnP use the phone's physical volume buttons - still not rotary, but much better than the soft rotary efforts.

I agree that voice control is meaningless for changing volume.

Hue: motion sensors in passageways, switches elsewhere, app / voice for turning everything off together. Dimmer panel introduced in 2015.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Hi

I am certain the people from Dutch & Dutch are listening/reading.

Physical buttons cannot, yet be replaced for us poor human beings. It is a matter of ergonomics. a bit OT. I recently plunged in to Home Automation and have about 8 Hue Lamps... I am forever annoyed by my lack of physical buttons to just turn the DARN lamps on or off... Having to sleep with a smartphone/tablet, or having to yell at some device, become quickly ridiculous/frustrating/annoying.
Give us a button. It could only be that: A simple, sole, volume knob, remote controlled. Please.

I cannot for the life of me understand why the remote controlling of AV systems is so neglected by manufacturers , old and new.

That was the first question I emailed the D & D team: How do I control volume. The answer is something like the miniDSP Shd Studio if you want to stay all digital or the remote control on your preamp which outputs XLR analog if you don't mind an additional A to D conversion. They were talking about their own separate control unit like the one Kii puts out (no doubt with a similar tariff!).

I agree with you. All the system requires is a simple volume control from a remote. Don't know for the life of me why they and all these other active speaker manufacturers can't provide it. Kudos to KEF for doing just that with the LS50W.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/847380486108432323/

 

[benje]

Another newbie question that I'd be keen to hear some thoughts around;

I'm very happy with the D&Ds for music, but I also have a sub at home (SVS SB-3000) that I'd like to augment bass in movies. To be clear, I physically turn the SVS off when not watching movies, so it won't have impacts on the 8c's for music.

I currently using the MiniDSP SHD Studio to output AES to the 8C's and then have the SVS hooked up via the 'thru' port on the left 8c.

My first challenge is trying to volume match the SVS to the 8c's. However, when I try and do anything clever with the 8c's (i.e. reduce the volume in lanspeaker or engage night mode), then it affects the SVS too, so I can't think of way to get a reading on the SVS alone?

I was thinking that in theory adding the SVS would cause a 3dB increase if both the 8c and the SVS were playing at exactly the same volume? So I could just play a test tone at say 75dB with just the 8c and then increase the volume in the SVS app until it read 78dB?

Once level matched, I think I could fake an LFE channel by increasing the volume on the SVS by +10dB (this is my understanding of what the LFE channel does) and use a low pass crossover on the SVS to say 50Hz to stop the risk of male voices etc being too heavily impacted.

Appreciate that this is a fairly janky way of achieving what I want, but given how poorly most receivers measure, I think this might actually not be too bad a compromise.

Cheers,

N.B. FWIW, the sub and speaker are the same distance from my seating position so I don't need to worry about delays, but can use the phase control to tweak if necessary

 

[samysound]

Another newbie question that I'd be keen to hear some thoughts around;

I'm very happy with the D&Ds for music, but I also have a sub at home (SVS SB-3000) that I'd like to augment bass in movies. To be clear, I physically turn the SVS off when not watching movies, so it won't have impacts on the 8c's for music.

I currently using the MiniDSP SHD Studio to output AES to the 8C's and then have the SVS hooked up via the 'thru' port on the left 8c.

My first challenge is trying to volume match the SVS to the 8c's. However, when I try and do anything clever with the 8c's (i.e. reduce the volume in lanspeaker or engage night mode), then it affects the SVS too, so I can't think of way to get a reading on the SVS alone?

I was thinking that in theory adding the SVS would cause a 3dB increase if both the 8c and the SVS were playing at exactly the same volume? So I could just play a test tone at say 75dB with just the 8c and then increase the volume in the SVS app until it read 78dB?

Once level matched, I think I could fake an LFE channel by increasing the volume on the SVS by +10dB (this is my understanding of what the LFE channel does) and use a low pass crossover on the SVS to say 50Hz to stop the risk of male voices etc being too heavily impacted.

Appreciate that this is a fairly janky way of achieving what I want, but given how poorly most receivers measure, I think this might actually not be too bad a compromise.

Cheers,

N.B. FWIW, the sub and speaker are the same distance from my seating position so I don't need to worry about delays, but can use the phase control to tweak if necessary

can you connect the sub to the additional outputs in the SHD? This would allow you to use the cross over / bass management function in the SHD to properly integrate your sub. You could have presets in the shd with and without the sub

 

[benje]

can you connect the sub to the additional outputs in the SHD? This would allow you to use the cross over / bass management function in the SHD to properly integrate your sub. You could have presets in the shd with and without the sub

Hey, yes I can, but that requires an additional DAC, so just looking at ways to do it without needing to buy more stuff for now.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Hey, yes I can, but that requires an additional DAC, so just looking at ways to do it without needing to buy more stuff for now.

Just about any old dac will do for that purpose. You could find something for $30 used and providing it was in working order, it should do just fine--remember SVS is using plate amps for those subs, so a good dac is just a waste of money in this use case. You may even have something lying around the house. Hell everyone has an unused Dac or two lying around the house.

 

[frangle]

This is a good idea if you have a large room and listen to movies at high volume levels. You can avoid possible distortion and even damage to the 8Cs on LFE effects if you enable the night mode. While I don't know what the frequency and slope of the night mode filter are, I'd keep the SW crossover frequency low to minimise audible distortion (I guess around 40Hz), though you may still find that you'll introduce more group delay distortion (so transients might not sound so clean) when music is playing in your theater config. Other than the night mode, I'm not sure that there's a way to set up an effective high pass filter for the 8Cs.

The basic issue is that the SHD Studio is not a receiver and the 8Cs don't solve that problem for you without extra hardware. If the SB3000 had a digital input you'd be in business. AVRs may not be optimal for specs but they do make hooking up a theater sound system relatively easy. Given the very low frequency LP filter you will have on the SB3000, as @phoenixdogfan says, any old DAC will do.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Since this thread has kind of stagnated, I'd be curious to see if anyone has any reasons/experience with doing room correction through REW and then using something like Dirac on top? The newbie in me can't see why this would be beneficial, but always happy to learn!

There is no reason why you couldn't use Dirac Live instead of the speakers' built-in parametric EQ. Dirac arguably has a shallower learning curve and, if you run it on most miniDSP processors anyway, you gain some convenience features like a volume knob, remote control and additional analogue and/or digital inputs.

 

[JustJones]

There is no reason why you couldn't use Dirac Live instead of the speakers' built-in parametric EQ. Dirac arguably has a shallower learning curve and, if you run it on most miniDSP processors anyway, you gain some convenience features like a volume knob, remote control and additional analogue and/or digital inputs.

If I turn off PEQ in the D&D use Dirac on the Minidsp sending the digital to the speakers it basically does the same thing? I guess to integrate subwoofers the only other thing needed is a DAC?

 

[Strictly Stereo]

If I turn off PEQ in the D&D use Dirac on the Minidsp sending the digital to the speakers it basically does the same thing? I guess to integrate subwoofers the only other thing needed is a DAC?

Pretty much, yes. Technically, Dirac Live is a little more sophisticated than PEQ, but they both tackle the same problem. Both are capable of impressive results.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

...To integrate subwoofers you can level match, implement high and low pass filters as required, align phase of subs with each other and with the main speakers and then finally run Dirac Live over the top.

 

[jae]

Still no ASR measurements on these? Surprising despite all the rave reviews. Someone send them to Amir!

 

[kaka89]

Hi 8c users, may I know can I turn off the 8c directly without going to sleep mode first?

I don't have LAN connection in my living room so I cannot use Lanspeaker to turn the 8c off (in fact there is only sleep option)

Thanks,

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Hi 8c users, may I know can I turn off the 8c directly without going to sleep mode first?

Yes. You can just flip the power switch on the back of each speaker to turn them off completely. However, if you prefer you can put them to sleep instead using the input selection pushbutton on the back panel.

 

[pozz]

All you 8c owners are giving me gear lust.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Still no ASR measurements on these? Surprising despite all the rave reviews. Someone send them to Amir!

@napilopez posted ASR-style spinorama measurements of them here...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...si-anechoic-spinorama-and-measurements.12111/

 

[phoenixdogfan]

@napilopez posted ASR-style spinorama measurements of them here...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...si-anechoic-spinorama-and-measurements.12111/

Would be nice to have Amir's measurements too, but I think they would just confirm what we already know.

 

[kaka89]

Finally got my 8C setup.
Felt like I can quit all audiophile forum now.