From a user’s perspective, the failure rate is more like 5.7% as there’s not much use of the second speaker of the pair when the other one is broken.
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Dutch & Dutch 8c Review
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From a user’s perspective, the failure rate is more like 5.7% as there’s not much use of the second speaker of the pair when the other one is broken.
Ok...
Odd that D&D gets targeted for the pile-on.
When my RME ADI-2 DAC nuked itself, I got the defective op amp excuse from RME (presented in characteristically smug and unapologetic fashion), a long wait for a replacement, and a replacement that was obviously a used and cosmetically damaged unit.
Yet RME is not targeted the way D&D is...
This is a D&D thread. I think that's the reason.
Something about these speakers seems to annoy a section of people who don't own them.
Throwing around failure rates from a single source and extrapolating to the whole line is a very bad understanding of statistics.
With this level of thinking, I won't waste my time digging up where I noted the RME issue on the RME thread and got a slightly discourteous response from the RME guy (very typical of him if you are on other forums) with essentially no pushback from the rest of ASR.
I feel bad for people around the world with horrible warranty in general. Here in Norway users are protected by a 5 year reclamation law for any product that's intended or expected to work for 5 years or more. Active speakers would fall under this and the dealers would be legally obliged to fix the product for no cost to the buyer.
Anyway, as long as the amplifier boards are not expensive, is easily available and can be replaced with my own two hands, I wouldn't be concerned. We know that plate amps are notoriously prone to failure, so my concern would be the long-term availability of the parts needed.
Do I trust the company to support the product for many years?
For Genelec and Neumann, I would. For Dutch I'm not sure. Small company, newcomer and all that.
In my eyes all these new, small and fragile companies with expensive and complicated products popping up everywhere have their job cut out to convince customers that the product will work as intended for more than a short while.
Anyway, as long as the amplifier boards are not expensive, is easily available and can be replaced with my own two hands, I wouldn't be concerned. We know that plate amps are notoriously prone to failure, so my concern would be the long-term availability of the parts needed.
Do I trust the company to support the product for many years?
For Genelec and Neumann, I would. For Dutch I'm not sure. Small company, newcomer and all that.
In my eyes all these new, small and fragile companies with expensive and complicated products popping up everywhere have their job cut out to convince customers that the product will work as intended for more than a short while.
Pearljam5000
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That's why I would personally buy only from "older " brands like Genelec , Neumann Geithain etc...
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At one point, these were not "old". they were where D&D is.. We need to encourage those few companies that produce speakers of excellence...
Peace.
Chester
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I think we’re putting a dealer in an unnecessary tight spot by asking questions like that. He’s provided some useful information but he can’t spill all on every product. He has commercial relationships to maintain in order to be a viable business. Credit for sharing what he already has though. Good luck getting a straight answer like that from other dealers.
nastypoker
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Amp in the 8c's is the S-PRO3. https://www.pascal-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/S-PRO-Series_Flyer-1_4.pdf
Not sure if it is available direct to consumers. The other boards in the electronics bay are mostly proprietary D&D from what I could see.
@Purité Audio is unusually forthcoming with information relating to gear he stocks...
I would be griping as loudly as anyone if D&D hadn't resolved my issues so rapidly.
And, truly, my experience with D&D has been the best of my experiences with makers of expensive audio stuff (including RME, Genesis, Goldmund, Mytek, etc.)...
I'm not sure how D&D gets targeted after we learn how, for example, Geithain treats its customers.
you can never become "old" without at some point being "new"
That thinking would have no suppliers eventually
I don't think this issue is "picking on" D&D. The combination of high power amps and high power computing power in expensive audio products has many examples of short lifespans and unavailability of parts (usually IC's) making them unrepairable. I bought a high end AVR that failed and could not be repaired due to lack of parts after just 5 years. The issue with high end proprietary electronics in active speakers is even more risky for the consumer as most of the cost of these products is mechanical but the whole system could be rendered useless for the want of one IC. Things happen even to good companies in this industry. I don't know the answer but the issue is a real concern for consumers.
Failure rate for ‘boxes’ again only in my experience is appreciably higher than for active loudspeakers ( well the ones I have stocked) and that seems to be irrespective of price or country of manufacture.
Warranty on the 8C is five years .
Keith
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What do you mean with ‘boxes’, passive loudspeakers?
Near term failure actives will certainly be lower than passives because it's much more difficult to blow up drivers when you have protection circuits! 
Long term (10+ years) it will start to equalize but amps for passives have to be factored in there too.
Long term (10+ years) it will start to equalize but amps for passives have to be factored in there too.
You can't equate the failure of a driver with the failure of a proprietary IC. Repairable faults are not a big deal, unrepairable faults are, especially with expensive gear.Near term failure actives will certainly be lower than passives because it's much more difficult to blow up drivers when you have protection circuits!
Long term (10+ years) it will start to equalize but amps for passives have to be factored in there too.
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Also driver failure due to overload is usually a result of wrong/inexperienced usage (usually when we are young and having a party )
So under usual "Hifi" usage the failure risk of an active loudspeaker is theoretically higher than of a passive as an active crossover can fail easier and quicker, also a typical component failure is more detrimental, for example if electrolytic capacitors dry out on a passive loudspeaker that would just mess FR but could lead the active board to not operate at all. I am collecting loudspeakers since several decades and while loudspeaker drivers of both have usually the same failures like crumbly surround foams or dried ferrofluid, I never had a passive crossover failing while several active and of course also amps. Sure one will say we should consider also the separate amps needed for the passive crossover which also fail (although usually not so often due to their often better cooling especially compared to closed baffle active loudspeakers which don't have the cooling effect of the BR port) but such a separate amp is usually cheaper and easier to repair or replace.
)So under usual "Hifi" usage the failure risk of an active loudspeaker is theoretically higher than of a passive as an active crossover can fail easier and quicker, also a typical component failure is more detrimental, for example if electrolytic capacitors dry out on a passive loudspeaker that would just mess FR but could lead the active board to not operate at all. I am collecting loudspeakers since several decades and while loudspeaker drivers of both have usually the same failures like crumbly surround foams or dried ferrofluid, I never had a passive crossover failing while several active and of course also amps. Sure one will say we should consider also the separate amps needed for the passive crossover which also fail (although usually not so often due to their often better cooling especially compared to closed baffle active loudspeakers which don't have the cooling effect of the BR port) but such a separate amp is usually cheaper and easier to repair or replace.
Pearljam5000
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Maybe there should be a passive version of the 8C
No components amps, dacs etc.
Keith
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