The major difference between the 8c and more normal devices is the music data has to be sent to both speakers (double the network traffic), and the speakers have to keep themselves in sync via the network. If you're using a switch for the 8c try moving the ports around, whilst it shouldn't make a difference...
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Dutch & Dutch 8c Review
- Thread starter hardisj
- Start date
There have been issues with some switches which were introducing a delay between ports, drop D&D a line .
Keith
Keith
RustyGates
Active Member
Well, everything is working smoothly now with the 8C's. It does seem to be a speaker sync issue which lasts something like 20 to 30 min after turning them on (cold start). I realized I could put the speakers into standby by holding down the circle within the Ascend app.
I have picked up Roon + Tidal on trial and checking it out. It does seem to be a great music and hardware control interface so far. Some sync issues with Tidal as some tracks are labelled "unavailable" even if there are no issues playing that track through Tidal direct; need to screw around by clearing the cache, logging out & back into Tidal etc.
I have picked up Roon + Tidal on trial and checking it out. It does seem to be a great music and hardware control interface so far. Some sync issues with Tidal as some tracks are labelled "unavailable" even if there are no issues playing that track through Tidal direct; need to screw around by clearing the cache, logging out & back into Tidal etc.
RustyGates
Active Member
Some retailers are just sellers. Maybe they offer a commissioning service, but I didn't ask for it and don't really need that. The 8C's out of the box shouldn't be incompatible with the latest available app version and have FW updates fail unless done manually through RMS.
I've already got a UMIK-1 so I can do room correction myself.
All that aside, these are fantastic sounding and good-look (Black/natural) speakers.
They shouldn’t be just ‘sellers’ speakers such as the 8Cs which are capable of such wide adjustment really need to be set up in the customers room, which would include ensuring that both the Ascend app and speaker firmware are up to date.
I completely understand that most retailers just want to sell you a box and then another box ad infinitum.
The guys at D&D are extremely responsive if you have any queries contact them directly,
Keith
I completely understand that most retailers just want to sell you a box and then another box ad infinitum.
The guys at D&D are extremely responsive if you have any queries contact them directly,
Keith
Last edited:
tw99
Senior Member
Since you're in Australia, I wonder if your pair were actually manufactured a while ago and were sitting in stock at the dealer? That would explain the out of date firmware, if they didn't commission them for you.
RustyGates
Active Member
Nope, dealer didn't have Black/Natural and had to be ordered in, took 2 months. I presume these were manufactured to ordered.
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Hi RustyGates,
I'm sorry to read you're having issues with your new 8c's. First with the firmware, and then with streaming.
The 8c's firmware is constantly being improved. Right now we're at release 2.4. You said that your brand new pair of 8c's was on 2.1 when you received them. I don't know how that's possible, because we update the firmware release we put on new speakers at pretty much the same time when the new release is made available to existing users. That means that the last new 8c's with 2.1 must have left our production line in December of last year. If you'd like me to check when your 8c's were produced, please PM me the serial numbers of your 8c's. For more info about firmware updates, please check this page on our website: https://dutchdutch.com/pages/firmware
With respect to issues with streaming, those are usually caused by funny behavior of the ethernet switch. The thing that makes streaming to the 8c’s dependent on the switch, whereas other streaming devices might work fine on the same switch, is that all 8c’s in your system are so-called ‘masters’. You're not streaming to one device (streamer, all-in-one speaker, master in a master-slave setup), but to both 8c's individually. They both have their own DSP and audio clock and the 8c’s communicate with each other via the ethernet to perfectly synchronize their clocks. This was quite difficult to develop, but it works very well if your network performs to ethernet spec.
According to our developers, some switches have all sorts of power domain optimization running in the background, which may mess up time-sensitive communication on the network. Expensive 'hifi' switches more often than not cause issues. In more high-end conventional switches, the user can usually configure these settings themselves. But it’s generally more cost-effective, and surely easier, to just use a simple unmanaged switch from a reputable company.
We generally recommend the NetGear GS105 because it is widely available, not too expensive, and it just works. However, there are many others that work well on the market. If you’d like our developers to check your switch’s specs, please reach out to us at [email protected]. Our developers will then look for red flags in your switch’s specs.
One or two pages back you were looking for information about the bottom panel of the 8c. You may have already found what you're looking for. If not, this will probably be useful: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0759/1854/1137/files/Dutch-Dutch-8c-bottom-plate.pdf?v=1689596206
Martijn
I'm sorry to read you're having issues with your new 8c's. First with the firmware, and then with streaming.
The 8c's firmware is constantly being improved. Right now we're at release 2.4. You said that your brand new pair of 8c's was on 2.1 when you received them. I don't know how that's possible, because we update the firmware release we put on new speakers at pretty much the same time when the new release is made available to existing users. That means that the last new 8c's with 2.1 must have left our production line in December of last year. If you'd like me to check when your 8c's were produced, please PM me the serial numbers of your 8c's. For more info about firmware updates, please check this page on our website: https://dutchdutch.com/pages/firmware
With respect to issues with streaming, those are usually caused by funny behavior of the ethernet switch. The thing that makes streaming to the 8c’s dependent on the switch, whereas other streaming devices might work fine on the same switch, is that all 8c’s in your system are so-called ‘masters’. You're not streaming to one device (streamer, all-in-one speaker, master in a master-slave setup), but to both 8c's individually. They both have their own DSP and audio clock and the 8c’s communicate with each other via the ethernet to perfectly synchronize their clocks. This was quite difficult to develop, but it works very well if your network performs to ethernet spec.
According to our developers, some switches have all sorts of power domain optimization running in the background, which may mess up time-sensitive communication on the network. Expensive 'hifi' switches more often than not cause issues. In more high-end conventional switches, the user can usually configure these settings themselves. But it’s generally more cost-effective, and surely easier, to just use a simple unmanaged switch from a reputable company.
We generally recommend the NetGear GS105 because it is widely available, not too expensive, and it just works. However, there are many others that work well on the market. If you’d like our developers to check your switch’s specs, please reach out to us at [email protected]. Our developers will then look for red flags in your switch’s specs.
One or two pages back you were looking for information about the bottom panel of the 8c. You may have already found what you're looking for. If not, this will probably be useful: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0759/1854/1137/files/Dutch-Dutch-8c-bottom-plate.pdf?v=1689596206
Martijn
RustyGates
Active Member
Thanks Martijn.
I was able to resolve the speaker sync issue through consultation with Kevin and Jimmy at D&D. It is working smoothly now, with both connected to a TP-Link TL-SG105E. This switch has power optimisation, "green technology"; but doesn't seem to affect the speakers sync at all.
As for the speakers mfg date, I have PM'd you the serials. I ultimately went with the stock D&D 8C's stands as well, but thanks for making the 8c's bottom plate fabrication drawing available on the website.
I am pleased this has been solved, re switches I had two 8C ( potential
customers who actually did become customers ) customers who experienced the very same problem when we were demonstrating the 8Cs in their homes , they were coincidentally both using the exact same switch, changed the switch and everything was fine.
Keith
customers who actually did become customers ) customers who experienced the very same problem when we were demonstrating the 8Cs in their homes , they were coincidentally both using the exact same switch, changed the switch and everything was fine.
Keith
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Glad to hear your getting it sorted. Your speakers really do deserve a better sounding source than Spotify's lossy stream. I'm a multich enthusiast so I can highly recommend Apple Music via a $100 4k TV box. It's as good as streaming gets.
RustyGates
Active Member
Glad to hear your getting it sorted. Your speakers really do deserve a better sounding source than Spotify's lossy stream. I'm a multich enthusiast so I can highly recommend Apple Music via a $100 4k TV box. It's as good as streaming gets.
I went with Roon + Tidal. Total monthly subscription fee is a bit expensive but it just works great and provides heaps of functionality with the 8Cs, my Tambaqui for the headphone setup and other Airplay & Sonos devices. Importing music from Spotify to Tidal was a bit of a pain as some tracks were "unavailable" in Roon although it was available inTidal. Anyway, I've sorted out that issue out and now it's all fine.
I thought all 8C updates were done OTA?!
OTA? Firmware updates are automatic if you choose that option, I was referring more to. the initial installation, room measurement, creating any requisite filters.
Keith
Keith
My current family room system is:
Sonos ARC soundbar
2x Sonos Play 5's (flanking the sound bar to the left and right)
2x Sonos Subs
I have a larger HT system in my HT room in the basement (Revel F328Be in 7.2.2), but looking to upgrade the sound for music playback in the family room.
Any ideas how well the 8c's would be able to work their magic placed in the little built-in cubbies?
There would only be about 3" clearance behind and 5" on each side of each 8c, and basically no room whatsoever above.
Family room has very high ceilings and is quite a large room as it is opens to the kitchen (basically the two are one big room measuring ~40'x35'x12' high. Again, all open concept floor plan.
Sonos ARC soundbar
2x Sonos Play 5's (flanking the sound bar to the left and right)
2x Sonos Subs
I have a larger HT system in my HT room in the basement (Revel F328Be in 7.2.2), but looking to upgrade the sound for music playback in the family room.
Any ideas how well the 8c's would be able to work their magic placed in the little built-in cubbies?
There would only be about 3" clearance behind and 5" on each side of each 8c, and basically no room whatsoever above.
Family room has very high ceilings and is quite a large room as it is opens to the kitchen (basically the two are one big room measuring ~40'x35'x12' high. Again, all open concept floor plan.
Positioning inside cupboards not a great idea for any speaker, can’t they sit in front of the cupboards, the 8Cs enjoy placement close to the front wall.
Keith
Keith
The bass drivers on the rear are likely to excite the whole structure, I also expect the side vents to not work as designed. What you currently have might be optimal.
That would be such a far superior choice.
If the room has enough depth the best results would be from positioning the speakers a bit out in the room in
front of that shelving, leaving enough room to open the doors and access contents.
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