Dutch & Dutch 8c Review

[tecnogadget]

@BrokenEnglishGuy You are failing to understand the strength of D&D 8C which is its cardoid dispersion pattern for low frequencies and built in DSP. It’s a flawed comparison from the start, you should keep actives and passives on their corresponding realms.
You are making just a very personal point about price/benefits ratio, but not everything in the world start and ends at KEF (which is quite tiresome).

Kii Three is something you can compare with D&D 8C in the high end “actives” realm. Then you also have Genelec high end active offerings, but lacking cardoid pattern.

 

[abdo123]

The problem is, D&D its way expensive and doesn't have the '' unique '' UNIQ. Only the typical top tweeter and bottom woofer (You can buy the typical bookshelf and add subs, and its better and cheaper), and that setup would sound like the d&d 8c, but you cannot buy the typical 2 way bookshelf and expect the same sound because the R series uses a special coaxial.



Kef in the other hand have their high performance coaxial UNIQ, which is quite unique because not many brands of them use a coaxial driver, which IMHO is way better than put the tweeter in the top and the woofer in the bottom. (This can be personal, but imho coaxial sounds far better). You can disaggre with me, and its perfect. But I only bought speakers because coaxial speakers like R3 exist.

Don't to mention the fact that that UNIQ from KEF R3 which all of their adventage ( coaxial ) still have lower distortion than the D&D8, even the woofers are better in Kef R series, because these woofer have much less distortion overall.

I think D&D 8c should cost far less.

people don't buy the Dutch & Dutch 8C because they want a good bookshelf, they buy it because they want a bookshelf with F10 of 20Hz and controlled directivity from 100Hz onward. basically a no-drama plug it in and it just works all-in-one solution.

No other speaker in the world is capable of this, except the Kii 3 and Erin said he will measure it soon.

 

[abdo123]

@BrokenEnglishGuy You are failing to understand the strength of D&D 8C which is its cardoid dispersion pattern for low frequencies and built in DSP. It’s a flawed comparison from the start, you should keep actives and passives on their corresponding realms.
You are making just a very personal point about price/benefits ratio, but not everything in the world start and ends at KEF (which is quite tiresome).

Kii Three is something you can compare with D&D 8C in the high end “actives” realm. Then you also have Genelec high end active offerings, but lacking cardoid pattern.

the Genelecs don't lack the cardioid pattern, you just need the W371A for that.

 

[Soniclife]

the Genelecs don't lack the cardioid pattern, you just need the W371A for that.

And the award for the most ironic use of the word just goes to abdo123.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

@BrokenEnglishGuy You are failing to understand the strength of D&D 8C which is its cardoid dispersion pattern for low frequencies and built in DSP. It’s a flawed comparison from the start, you should keep actives and passives on their corresponding realms.
You are making just a very personal point about price/benefits ratio, but not everything in the world start and ends at KEF (which is quite tiresome).

Kii Three is something you can compare with D&D 8C in the high end “actives” realm. Then you also have Genelec high end active offerings, but lacking cardoid pattern.

The problem is discuss the '' cardoid dispersion '' its a litle hard at least for me; i don't know if its very clear to you this stuff.

I understand the cardoid dispersion to be '' easier '' to set up, but if I measure the speakers and correct them, can i get a similar result?

If the answer is yes, and i can get similar result with a mic, is not that important the cardiod thing, isn't?

people don't buy the Dutch & Dutch 8C because they want a good bookshelf, they buy it because they want a bookshelf with F10 of 20Hz and controlled directivity from 100Hz onward. basically a no-drama plug it in and it just works all-in-one solution.

No other speaker in the world is capable of this, except the Kii 3 and Erin said he will measure it soon.

I can understand the fact that this is a full range speaker and if people want a simple thing with no drama plug in, i can't argue because as you said no other speaker have something similar. In fact i don't know why in 2021 speakers still aren't full range and subwoofers still exist, hope we see more weird woofer like Devialet's that can go very deep.

But still, I don't think this should cost anywhere near of 10,000 USD.

 

[GDK]

I actually just replaced my R3s with a pair of 8Cs in my listening room. One thing I am sure of is that the R3s offer an amazing value for the money.

 

[muslhead]

But still, I don't think this should cost anywhere near of 10,000 USD.

I think if you had a pair and had a broad level of comparison you would have a different opinion

 

[Soniclife]

I understand the cardoid dispersion to be '' easier '' to set up, but if I measure the speakers and correct them, can i get a similar result?

If the cardioid fixes a null in your room you cannot fix that with DSP, or multiple subs as it's in the 100 - 500hz range.

 

[tecnogadget]

@BrokenEnglishGuy The cardioid patter is inherent to the speaker design, its not something you can “add” or fix later in a speaker by means of adding DSP. That’s why I can’t stress enough how a big deal that feature is on this speaker

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I've heard the D&D's at some length. No question they are cleaner and more articulate in the lower midrange/midbass over even something like my LS 50 Metas. If anyone wants something appraching the very best, they are not unfairly priced, IMHO. But for a great deal less, I can tell anyone who wants to listen that Kef's sound extremely good as well, particularly from the bass on up.

 

[JayGilb]

You should post a hi-res version of these images, so we can zoom in and see your neighbors giving you the stink eye.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

If the cardioid fixes a null in your room you cannot fix that with DSP, or multiple subs as it's in the 100 - 500hz range.

Good and valid point, anyway I don't have a null in my room using R7.

I think if you had a pair and had a broad level of comparison you would have a different opinion

But still. If I have a pair the wood doesn't gonna transform into a solid aluminum cabinet and the distortion doesn't gonna lower
Also the little tinny hole that i pointed objectivly (post #617) doesn't gonna dissapiar. (maybe is not that important but its still there.)


Only because they can reach 20hz doesn't surprise to me since they have subwoofers. And i can add subwoofers to any system, i see much more valuable reach the 20hz with the woofers ( the traditional way like revels salon#2 or even Devialet woofers)

Is not like d&d 8c develop a whole new driver for reach these 20hz. ( if that were the case i would find the d&d 8c way more special )



Now is there a probability that this speaker use a very expensive drivers and AMPs (I don't know which driver they use) and that justifique the cost, is this the case?



Anyway, if someone value a lot the fact that this speakers is a full range and a bookshelf, i can't argue because someone want a full range bookshelf as tinny as possible, i seen people returning bookshelf's and buying the ls50 because they were smaller, it's weird to me but we all have different priorities.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I've heard the D&D's at some length. No question they are cleaner and more articulate in the lower midrange/midbass over even something like my LS 50 Metas. If anyone wants something appraching the very best, they are not unfairly priced, IMHO. But for a great deal less, I can tell anyone who wants to listen that Kef's sound extremely good as well, particularly from the bass on up.

Did you hear the LS50 Wii + dual subs?

 

[Scholl]

Good and valid point, anyway I don't have a null in my room using R7.

Even with cardioid speakers such as the D&D 8C or the Kii Three it is nearly impossible not to have any null in a room. Because of the ground and ceiling reflections for instance.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Even with cardioid speakers such as the D&D 8C or the Kii Three it is nearly impossible not to have any null in a room. Because of the ground and ceiling reflections for instance.

Well to be honest i lied, but i don't know if it's worth to mention



Using the R300 i had a big null of -5dB but with my R7 i got a small null of 1-2dB that i fixed with EQ with no problem

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Did you hear the LS50 Wii + dual subs?

No. I own Metas and I have a single SB2000 sub along with DL3 in a small 12 x 12 listening room. It's a sing;le person system, so I don't know that I need a second sub, but I am thinking about it. Amp is the impeccable Purifi Eval 1 Eigentact, and DAC is the equally impeccable Octo DAC 8 Pro. i've had it for the last six months, so I have quite a few hours on it, and it's terrific.

 

[abdo123]

Using the R300 i had a big null of -5dB but with my R7 i got a small null of 1-2dB that i fixed with EQ with no problem

Do you live in an anechoic chamber or are you completely crazy?

Most good rooms have +/- 10 dB error rate, usually +/- 15 dB or +/- 20 dB in regular domestic settings. Only state of the art rooms approach +/- 5 dB and below. for example the D&D 8C anechoic response is ±1.5dB from 30Hz to 18kHz, which is out of this world bonkers good.

 

[Scholl]

Well to be honest i lied, but i don't know if it's worth to mention



Using the R300 i had a big null of -5dB but with my R7 i got a small null of 1-2dB that i fixed with EQ with no problem

Even world class mastering rooms still have some +-3/4dB nulls and peaks (unsmoothed and without EQ), so if you only have an unsmoothed +-1/2dB room, you have my congratulations ! I certainly could not attain such results in my RFZ control room with flush mounted speakers.

 

[Soniclife]

Well to be honest i lied

Oxymoron of the day award.

 

[abdo123]

Even world class mastering rooms still have some +-3/4dB nulls and pics (unsmoothed and without EQ), so if you only have an unsmoothed +-1/2dB room, you have my congratulations ! I certainly could not attain such results in my RFZ control room with flush mounted speakers.

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you would really benefit from a flatter speakers at this point. way too much jiggleness above 2KHz.