Does Your System "Wow" or "Amaze" You? Looking to upgrade? Tell Us About It....

[fpitas]

My system does wow me frequently. But that may be an illustration of Beranek's Law:

It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker.

Seriously though, it sounds like the headphones. So, I'm happy.

 

[computer-audiophile]

But those Lii's are far from linear responding. And there is a big confusion on who makes them as the orignial Lii Audio is a legendaric, but china only brand that does not export at all. Someone registered the name and now use Lii Song as the name, and makes speakers that are very flawed, but seems to have a public (a bit like Audio Nirvana fullrange drivers, and largely the same public).

But measurments show terrible responses (very strong resonances up top, often 10 to 20db above the general response) and in my experiences (i build a speaker with the F15 for someone who hired me for that) they are far from published specs and very inconsistent in specs. So absolute crap in my book (and i like good single driver fullrange speakers), and probally also to ASR standards. Actaully much like i rate Audio Nirvana speakers, of which Lii remind me a lot of.

Very interesting. Is there an ASR standard?

For me, what counts in the end is how something sounds and I have compared the F15 with other very large full-range speakers of the earlier years, e.g. with the large Philips. In this context of its class it does respectably imo. The topic of high-sensitivity classic speakers has occupied me for a many years and I have also achieved good results with it at demonstrations. (Not with the F15 which I tested more recently)

I had ordered them directly from China, I don't know about bad fakes or anything. My quality impression of the F15 was also very good in detail. BTW: I do not have experiences with the brand Audio Nirvana. Is not in my interest.

 

[computer-audiophile]

It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker.

Good point!

This danger is really obvious. I have often tried to counter this possible self-deception by publicly presenting my results to a critical audience or by participating in regular shoot-outs. This has usually increased my satisfaction.

 

[Keith_W]

Really nice setup; your policy/approach and mine are essentially quite similar with each other.

BTW, do you use protection capacitor(s) for your treasure tweeter and midrange horn?

No, I don't. The tweeters have built-in protection (they are active electronic devices). As for the horns, i've never needed to. Maybe I should.

 

[computer-audiophile]

....i build a speaker with the F15 for someone who hired me for that.

This is great. I'd like to see a photo of that.

BTW: I had started a lengthy thread in a German forum, and there was a great acceptance for the F15.

Mal wieder was mit Breitbändern machen? - Analogue Audio Association

Während heutzutage immer mehr Röhrenverstärker auf den Markt kommen, gibt es scheinbar immer weniger Lautsprecher, die optimal damit harmonieren. Das fängt bei der schlechten Empfindlichkeit an, in dB/W/m gemessen, betrifft den Impedanzverlauf, Ansprüche…

www.analog-forum.de

 

[fpitas]

No, I don't. The tweeters have built-in protection (they are active electronic devices). As for the horns, i've never needed to. Maybe I should.

Turn-on and turn-off thump from the amp is the big killer of horn diaphragms. If they've lasted this long, you're probably fine.

 

[Mr. Widget]

BTW, do you use protection capacitor(s) for your treasure tweeter and midrange horn?

I use 68 microF 400 VDC Jantzen Audio Standard Z-cap for my gem Beryllium midrange drivers, and 10 microF 400 VDC Jantzen Audio Standard Z-cap for my Be-tweeters and metal horn super-tweeters;

Of course, I carefully measured the line-level Fq response before and after the protection caps confirming their transparency in working Fq zones, as shared in my post here.

This is no joke. Turn on/off thumps are one thing, but I have had amplifiers fail producing high levels of DC and in one case playing 60Hz at full gain.

I use a simple series cap on my Be compression drivers. I use a 51uF cap on my 16Ω drivers. My active crossover is a third order set at 750Hz. I have carefully measured the resulting FR and see no change with and without the cap and have subjectively listened and was unable to tell when it is in the circuit or out.

While I use Jantzen Superior Caps for my passive networks, I am using basic Solen polypropylene caps for my blocking caps. I sure can't hear a difference.

 

[fpitas]

This is no joke. Turn on/off thumps are one thing, but I have had amplifiers fail producing high levels of DC and in one case playing 60Hz at full gain.

I use a simple series cap on my Be compression drivers. I use a 51F cap on my 16Ω drivers. My active crossover is a third order set at 750Hz. I have carefully measured the resulting FR and see no change with and without the cap and have subjectively listened and was unable to tell when it is in the circuit or out.

While I use Jantzen Superior Caps for my passive networks, I am using a basic Solen polypropylene caps for my blocking caps. I sure can't hear a difference.

I saw a JBL app note showing 20 ohms right across the driver, I guess for damping. Is that something you did?

 

[Mr. Widget]

I saw a JBL app note showing 20 ohms right across the driver, I guess for damping. Is that something you did?

No, I have not tried that. Pretty sure that would make an audible change.

 

[JeremyFife]

Some amazing systems here, and fascinating evolutions.

My own setup is basic and constrained by a far from ideal room and strong (negative) WAF. I may upgrade speakers (and add subs) when we next move if the room gets better ... there's little point just now

However, my basic system regularly "wow's" me.
I don't have anything to compare it with other than my office system, or headphones, and I don't listen critically with them. I'd love some decent bass, and the soundstage/imaging can vary a huge amount ... But the mids are pleasing and every now again the 'sound' of a vocal inflection or a guitar line just hits me, or I realise with clarity how two musicians are playing off each other and it's magic.
The music is great, and the most important part, but sometimes it's the sound that catches me too - the audiophile 'wow'

Better speakers, in a better room - nothing too fancy (Revel M106, or Kef R3 if I can swing it) ... I'd like to hear those. I really must learn how to use the miniDSP Flex properly too.

 

[Godataloss]

I'm content, bored even with the lack motivation to even look at gear any longer. kinda sad really. I was going to sell everything and start over, but fortunately I've gained enough wisdom to realize how dumb those impulses are.

 

[Waxx]

This is great. I'd like to see a photo of that.

BTW: I had started a lengthy thread in a German forum, and there was a great acceptance for the F15.

Mal wieder was mit Breitbändern machen? - Analogue Audio Association

Während heutzutage immer mehr Röhrenverstärker auf den Markt kommen, gibt es scheinbar immer weniger Lautsprecher, die optimal damit harmonieren. Das fängt bei der schlechten Empfindlichkeit an, in dB/W/m gemessen, betrifft den Impedanzverlauf, Ansprüche…

www.analog-forum.de

I don't show commissioned speakers, as clients pay me also to let them take the credit to their friends and show off. I also don't do this as main job, it's more a paying hobby and it' gives me experiences that i don't have the finance myself. That is actually the main reason why i do these commissioned jobs.

And about the LII see my posts above about the "wow" factor. If you like to hear them, and enjoy music with them, it's ok for me, i don't blame you. At the end that is the only thing that matters, enjoying music. And your subjective taste may be not objective right, but it's not important for your pleasure.

But they are in no way flat or linear or low distortion. Nor ar the Philips (i have a pair of 1065's in big aperioidic boxes that i love btw). And even my favorite speakers drivers, the Mark Audio Alpair 10.3 are not that. They are all technical flawed (and AN and Lii the most of those i know) but subjectivly there are still people who love them and pay big prices sometimes....

 

[gnarly]

My system does wow me frequently. But that may be an illustration of Beranek's Law:

It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker.

Seriously though, it sounds like the headphones. So, I'm happy.

Yep, I often wonder if Beranek's law isn't reigning over my work...'cause I like it so damn much

Though there are a few things that help me rationalize my way past it applying very strongly.......

First is the percent of DIY things that I try that look great on paper or with sims, that just plain don't work.
I try, measure, and listen, to boat loads of experiments. Failures keep me honest Lol.

Second is continually comparing DIY efforts to my other well regarded, purchased speakers and headphones.

And last are my adult kids on visits home, who have watched their dad be an audio nut his whole life. It's pretty easy to read if they think anything has improved or gone south. Plus, I almost always have multiple stuff running to get the preference selections.

 

[fpitas]

Yep, I often wonder if Beranek's law isn't reigning over my work...'cause I like it so damn much

Though there are a few things that help me rationalize my way past it applying very strongly.......

First is the percent of DIY things that I try that look great on paper or with sims, that just plain don't work.
I try, measure, and listen, to boat loads of experiments. Failures keep me honest Lol.

Second is continually comparing DIY efforts to my other well regarded, purchased speakers and headphones.

And last are my adult kids on visits home, who have watched their dad be an audio nut his whole life. It's pretty easy to read if they think anything has improved or gone south. Plus, I almost always have multiple stuff running to get the preference selections.

My headphones keep me honest. All the time I prove to myself how variable hearing can be.

 

[Waxx]

I avoid the Baranek law partly by weekly listening to a pair of Genelec 8030C's in the radio studio i do a weekly broadcast in. That's approximity 1h30 each weak i listen to them...

 

[fpitas]

I avoid the Baranek law partly by weekly listening to a pair of Genelec 8030C's in the radio studio i do a weekly broadcast in. That's approximity 1h30 each weak i listen to them...

I find that I'm nitpicky enough that it doesn't affect me a lot. Frankly, I'm my own worst critic.

 

[Doodski]

Comment deleted till I review this threads succession of commentary and get my comment proper and correct.

 

[Mr. Widget]

My system does wow me frequently. But that may be an illustration of Beranek's Law:

+1

My headphones keep me honest. All the time I prove to myself how variable hearing can be.

So true... we can measure minuscule changes that are way beyond audibility, using DSP we can influence the phase and frequency response making gross and ultra fine changes... but at the end of the day, our hearing is simply not consistent. Telling ourselves it is consistent is as delusional as thinking our aural memory of a system we heard years, days, or even hours ago is accurate.

My feeling is that we can get twisted in knots about what is important, but since the ultimate judge of quality is our hearing, if it sounds good to the audience it is good. Full stop.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I don't show commissioned speakers

OK, then I can not get an idea of your work.

... the Philips (i have a pair of 1065's in big aperioidic boxes that i love ...

One of my favourite full range drivers are the vintage Philips 9710M. In their days these were also used in studio monitors.

Here I ran them in inverted/modified SONAB BR cabinets, which were quite well matched to them. With these I participated in a big full range shootout in Paris - but unfortunately did not win the competition.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I avoid the Baranek law partly by weekly listening to a pair of Genelec 8030C's in the radio studio i do a weekly broadcast in. That's approximity 1h30 each weak i listen to them...

I think Genelec is OK, yes. Comparable e.g. with my KH120s at home. But strangely, such pro audio speakers, which certainly do a lot right, have never triggered a wow effect in me. Strange but true.